sexual morality

[Eph. 3:20]

Eph 3:20,

I have to admit that I have not as yet taken the time to study up on the Biblical understanding of "poligamy", "concubines" and "prostitutes". It has not been an important issue to me because I do not see how it would apply to my life as I happen to love my wife more than any other human being and would not possibly consider muddying up our relationship with another person, wife, concubine or prostiture. Besides, I don't think my finances could handle more than one wife and family at a time.

This looks like it might be an interesting topic within this thread and should cause quite a bit of conversation and controversy.

BTW, are you married, and if so, what does your wife feel about this issue?

Yes, I am married (together for over 20 years), to one wife that I love more than life itself. Her perspective is similar to mine in that our primary focus is love..always love. She is the personification fo love in our family. I don't know if I could be married to more than one woman. I'm not trying to advance the cause of polygamy and the like, but at the same time I have to be honest with the subject as it's presented to us within Scripture. Polygamy has impact on so many of the other "sin" issues like fornication, adultery and lust and our mis-understanding of those issues.

It is a fascinating study becaue we get to really see what God says about certain issues. Not just listen to other people tell us what God says about it. Much of our traditional sexual ethic isn't very biblical. What is practised in the present day seems to be a cultural morality rather than a biblical morality.

I remember listening to sermons that described the scourge of polygamy and how God was opposed to it and at the same time reading Scriptures like:

God testifies that... "David did what was right in God's sight in everything God commanded except in the matter of Uriah". (1 Kg. 15:5)

David "walks in integrity..truth..hates wickedness," (Ps 26:1-12)

And I realized that if King David were to walk into a modern day Church, accept Christ as his saviour, he would most likely be turned away because of his lifestyle. Can you imagine? So I took and in depth study into sexual issues, most of which I probably will never partake in. But for me it was important because sex is one of the most intimate ways we communicate as human beings and it's a subject that is so personal it's very rarely discussed from the pulpit. Most of us are too afraid to bring up anything sexual to our Pastor. So we go to places like this where we are afforded some sense of "privacy."

Eph. 3:20

 

[Natman]

Eph 3:20,

You've already listed several verses that support or talk about poligamy. Have you made an extensive collection and have you run any of these across any noted theologians or commentators?

I can imagin the screaming (CAPITALIZED, BOLDENED, ITALICIZED, EXCLAMATION MARKED) and repetative rebuttals you will recieve as you lay out your position and you evidence... Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt and the hat.

As they say in poker..."If you got 'em, show 'em".

Son-cerely,
Nate

 

[an7222]

"Life", according to the American Heritage Dictionary:
The property or quality that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter, manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.

Spermatozoa:
Metabolism? Yes
Growth? Not outside the testes
Reproduction? No. Sperm cells exist merely to deliver genetic information to
the ovum. Sperm cannot reproduce on their own, and are made from
specialized cells in the testes, or from stem cell cultures in a lab (recently
done with mice)
Response to stimuli? Hard to say. They swim a lot, but only in hospitable
environments. All they ever do is swim.
Adaptation to the environment from within the organism? No. The ideal
environment for a sperm cell, seminal fluid, is produced by other parts of
the body

Ok. So lets analize a fetus from these criterias:

Metabolism? yes
Growth? Not outside the uterus
Reproduction? No
Response to stimule? depends on the age of the fetus
Adaptation to the environment from withthin the organism? No.

So, a fetus is not a life. Not to mension the people that can't reproduce due to problems in their reproductive system. So, they are not life.

 

[fashionably_lonely]

what if your wife wanted you to wear women's clothes for some reason, but is crossdressing in private as a "fun' thing a sin?

 

[NoDeity]

Point taken.

I should have said "HUMAN life".

I don't think that killing "unicellular life" other than a human zygote could be considered immoral, as we do that simply by scratching, walking, chewing or any other number of naturaly expected actions, every single second of every single day.

I suggest that the question should be this: At what point does a new human life become a person?

 

[Eph. 3:20]

Eph 3:20,

You've already listed several verses that support or talk about poligamy. Have you made an extensive collection and have you run any of these across any noted theologians or commentators?

I can imagin the screaming (CAPITALIZED, BOLDENED, ITALICIZED, EXCLAMATION MARKED) and repetative rebuttals you will recieve as you lay out your position and you evidence... Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt and the hat.

As they say in poker..."If you got 'em, show 'em".

Son-cerely,
Nate

Hey Nate,

I've hardly scratched the surface of the polygamy issue.

Yes I have talked to Pastors across the nation. The vast majority of them call me insane, unlearned or they make comments like "Frankly, I do think you are a man trying to justify what your sinful nature wants to do." and "you are indeed far from the kingdom of heaven" and " If you continue to hold this position, I cannot call you a brother." A few have said they never really looked carefully at the issue before and thanked me for the conversation. One actually said "You're right." There is far too much at stake for a Pastor to go against the traditional teaching of the Church and publicly announce his findings. Most Pastors use the same "logic" or verses to condemn polygamy, while never really researching it, only because that is what they have been taught. To align yourself within a certain religion, you have to align yourself to it's teachings. If you don't you're not accepted. To many the issue is not that important so the time necessary to carry out proper exegesis is too valuable and concentrated on some other portion of study.

It's funny, while I try to pay close attention to exactly what the Bible does and does not say about the issue (using Scripture as the sole source) and use Biblical/Lexical definitions in the way the original recipient would have understood them; I'm considered extremely liberal.

Eph. 3:20

 

[artybloke]

only because that is what they have been taught

Sounds familiar. An awful lot of people find it much easier to take the word of the bloke in the expensive suit at the front of the church, rather than do the study for themselves. After all, that would imply that they had to take responsibility for themselves and their own life decisions (right or wrong) rather than fob them off onto to someone else, or a bunch of 2000 year old texts somebody else has told them is important (but only if you agree with them about what it means.)

Thinking for yourself is hard.

 

[Eph. 3:20]

...but only if you agree with them about what it means. Thinking for yourself is hard.

So true. If you don't agree, they'll say you're not fit for Kingdom life. I've had "men of God" call me names and make wicked accusations because of my defense of a person's ability to love more than one person.

I read passages like:

"All Scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." (2 Tim. 3:16)

"Test everything. Hold on to that which is good." (1 Thes. 5:21)

" Now the Bereans were of more noble character then the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." (Acts 17:11)

I can't help but thing that God desires us to read His word. Not only to read it and know what it says, but also to understand what is written. But you're correct, that means personal responsibilty. It is much easier to accept what is told to you than to "test all things."

Eph. 3:20

 

[Natman]

what if your wife wanted you to wear women's clothes for some reason, but is crossdressing in private as a "fun' thing a sin?

It has been said..."It's not the clothes that make the man." ... or woman. If you are cross-dressing as a prank or for fun, I don't think there is a problem. If you are doing it to change your sexual identity, or to lure someone into a homosexual relationship, then there may be a problem.

Nate