Sex Before Marriage

[swdee]

I have been a christian for over 20 years and know the bible very well.
And as yet I cannot see anywhere in the bible that condemns sex before marriage.
Every single verse that christians say condemn it are badly misquoted or mis-translated, as follows:

Fornication is a definition of a sexual sin in the bible which in the dictionary refers to sex outside of marriage.
But if you examine this you will see the original greek work was 'inappropriate contentia/inappropriate contenteia' (which is where the word 'inappropriate content' comes from), which was a shorthand word encapsuating the jewish sexual prohibitions.
Now if we look at those, we see various sins such as incest, inappropriate behavior with animals, homosexuality etc but nowhere does it mention sex before marriage!

So with that one nullified, lets look at an often quoted verse (in John 4) on the subject about Jesus saying to the woman at the well that she had already had 5 husbands and the man she is living with now isn't her husband. The woman was amazed at his word of knowledge and spread the word that Jesus was the son of God.

Nowhere does Jesus condemn her for not being married to her lover, it was simply a word of knowledge and I'm amazed that christians still quote this verse of evidence that the bible condems sex outside of marriage.

Another often quoted verse is Genesis 2:24 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."
At first glance this appears to be about a married couple, but if you investigate this you will discover that the word for 'wife' in this verse in hebrew is 'ishshah (ish-shaw')' which simply meant 'a woman' and is used elsewhere in the old testament to describe any woman, married or unmarried (there is no actual Hebrew word for wife).

So the verse is basically saying that it is natural for a man and a woman to leave their parents homes and live together in a sexual relationship.
Nothing more.
And no christian can use this verse to say 'one flesh' means that God only wants us to have one sexual partner throught our entire lives, as right through the old testament the great and blessed 'men of god' were polygamous. Even Abraham had many concubines as well as sleeping with his servant girl etc.
You might say well God didn't want them to do that, but you have no evidence because nowhere in the old testament does God condemn them having more than one wife or concubines and he even made laws to govern such acts!

Lastly, in the new testament, Paul does mention briefly in one verse about sex before marriage, 1 Corinthians 7: "But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband".
Again, like the hebrew, the greek word for 'wife' (gunaikos) is the same as 'woman' also the word for 'husband' (andres) is the same word for 'male' or an adult man.

So he is basically speaking against promiscuity which is fair enough, and that each person should have their own partner. We can only guess at what 'immoralities' he was referring to, maybe orgies and bed-hopping?

Also, even if Paul were actually referring to people being legally married, what about the rest of his teachings. Soon after the previous verse he condemns divorced people getting remarried (which most churches nowadays ignore) and many times he sees woman as second class citizens who should not teach a man and must keep their heads covered etc.
So if you choose to obey the previous verse so not have sex before marriage then you do really have to obey the whole of the new testament/god's word and not pick and choose, otherwise you are basically deciding for yourself which bits are right and which are wrong.

So, like I say, I cannot see anywhere in the bible that condemns sex before marriage, but if anyone can show me where is says it, go ahead.
I will believe you if you can prove it to me.
(And please don't just try to justify it moraly, please just refer to the bible)

 

[chingchang]

I have been a christian for over 20 years and know the bible very well.
And as yet I cannot see anywhere in the bible that condemns sex before marriage.
Every single verse that christians say condemn it are badly misquoted or mis-translated, as follows:

Fornication is a definition of a sexual sin in the bible which in the dictionary refers to sex outside of marriage.
But if you examine this you will see the original greek work was 'inappropriate contentia/inappropriate contenteia' (which is where the word 'inappropriate content' comes from), which was a shorthand word encapsuating the jewish sexual prohibitions.
Now if we look at those, we see various sins such as incest, inappropriate behavior with animals, homosexuality etc but nowhere does it mention sex before marriage!

So with that one nullified, lets look at an often quoted verse (in John 4) on the subject about Jesus saying to the woman at the well that she had already had 5 husbands and the man she is living with now isn't her husband. The woman was amazed at his word of knowledge and spread the word that Jesus was the son of God.

Nowhere does Jesus condemn her for not being married to her lover, it was simply a word of knowledge and I'm amazed that christians still quote this verse of evidence that the bible condems sex outside of marriage.

Another often quoted verse is Genesis 2:24 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."
At first glance this appears to be about a married couple, but if you investigate this you will discover that the word for 'wife' in this verse in hebrew is 'ishshah (ish-shaw')' which simply meant 'a woman' and is used elsewhere in the old testament to describe any woman, married or unmarried (there is no actual Hebrew word for wife).

So the verse is basically saying that it is natural for a man and a woman to leave their parents homes and live together in a sexual relationship.
Nothing more.
And no christian can use this verse to say 'one flesh' means that God only wants us to have one sexual partner throught our entire lives, as right through the old testament the great and blessed 'men of god' were polygamous. Even Abraham had many concubines as well as sleeping with his servant girl etc.
You might say well God didn't want them to do that, but you have no evidence because nowhere in the old testament does God condemn them having more than one wife or concubines and he even made laws to govern such acts!

Lastly, in the new testament, Paul does mention briefly in one verse about sex before marriage, 1 Corinthians 7: "But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband".
Again, like the hebrew, the greek word for 'wife' (gunaikos) is the same as 'woman' also the word for 'husband' (andres) is the same word for 'male' or an adult man.

So he is basically speaking against promiscuity which is fair enough, and that each person should have their own partner. We can only guess at what 'immoralities' he was referring to, maybe orgies and bed-hopping?

Also, even if Paul were actually referring to people being legally married, what about the rest of his teachings. Soon after the previous verse he condemns divorced people getting remarried (which most churches nowadays ignore) and many times he sees woman as second class citizens who should not teach a man and must keep their heads covered etc.
So if you choose to obey the previous verse so not have sex before marriage then you do really have to obey the whole of the new testament/god's word and not pick and choose, otherwise you are basically deciding for yourself which bits are right and which are wrong.

So, like I say, I cannot see anywhere in the bible that condemns sex before marriage, but if anyone can show me where is says it, go ahead.
I will believe you if you can prove it to me.
(And please don't just try to justify it moraly, please just refer to the bible)

You are correct. Inevitably...someone will bring up 'fornication' then give you the modern English definition...which includes all sex outside of marriage. Of course you and I know that theology to be a flawed process.

CC

 

[dayhiker]

swdee,
Yup, that was my conclusion as well. Many good p[oints you have.
I don't see inappropriate contenteia as "encapselating Jewish sexual prohibitions" however. Philo and Jewish philosopher from Alexandria did use the word. The LXX did use the word. Phato used it was well. The Greek on the street understood inappropriate contenteia and its family of 5 words to be related to prostitution. inappropriate contenteia is used in the LXX to tranlate the Hebrew word for prostitution. Which interestingly enough, the OT doesn't have have a verse that gives a blanket condemns prostitution. There is a verse that says priests aren't to sell their daughters into prositution. But anyways all that to say the Greek man on the street understood proneia to refer to prostitution. Most prostitution was associated with the idol temples in Bible times and this is addressed over and over again from the OT thru the NT. We would expect the prophets to speak out against idol worship and so they do. In this context they speak against going to those temples and engaging a temple prostitute.

Another fact you may be interested to know is that the Greek moral philosophers never once in their lists of sins include inappropriate contenteia. But Paul comes along and includes inappropriate contenteia. Why would Paul incluse it when writting to the Gentiles while the Greek moral philosophers don't? Everyone included adultery as evil, indeed adultery was the Great Sin for all middle east cultures in Bible times. Its clear to me that Paul included inappropriate contenteia as a sin because its was to worship idols thru the prostitutes in the temples. Idolitry is usally the word next to inappropriate contenteia in Paul's lists of sin.

dayhiker

 

[Followers4christ]

As the bible says the marriage bed should be kept pure from all the sexually immoral (Hebrews 13:4). The reason for this is sex was designed by God to be pleasurable for two people who love each other to experience in marriage. Anything out of wedlock is sin because a man and a woman is supposed to present themselves as pure before the alter, as a gift to the other. For the husband and wife shall become one flesh (Genesis 2:23-24).

Here is some of what Jesus said on adultery:

Jesus said in Matthew 5:28 "But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Jesus also said in Matthew 19:9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

Jesus also said in Mark 10:19 " You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother."



Here are some great site's that will answer your questions about what the bible says about sex before marriage:

http://www.gotquestions.org/sex-before-marriage.html ( What does the Bible say about sex before marriage / premarital sex? )

http://christianity.about.com/od/whatdoesthebiblesay/a/sexandthebible.htm (10 Reasons Not to Have Sex Outside of Marriage)

http://ccef.org/sex-marriage-how-far-too-far (Sex Before Marriage: How Far Is Too Far?)

 

[Orange_County_Chopper]

So as long as I am dating one woman at a time, I am free to Boink outside marriage?

 

[Followers4christ]

You are correct. Inevitably...someone will bring up 'fornication' then give you the modern English definition...which includes all sex outside of marriage. Of course you and I know that theology to be a flawed process.

CC

The sin of fornication is not only defined as sexual intercourse between those who are not married but also is an umbrella for other sexual sins as well. The Bible also speaks of the sin of incest as fornication in 1 Corinthians 5:1

God gave us the laws in the Bible for our good. They are not meant to deny us any good thing but they are given so we can enjoy the proper sexual relationship in the proper time (in marriage). If we obey the words of the Bible and "flee fornication" and glorify God in our bodies, the Lord will bless us beyond what we could believe. God Bless

 

[ittarter]

I have been a christian for over 20 years and know the bible very well.
And as yet I cannot see anywhere in the bible that condemns sex before marriage.

Well, you're asking a question that the Bible doesn't exactly ask itself, so you're going to have to probe a bit for some helpful guidance from the Bible on this issue. Assuming you're not just trying to get under the Bible's thumb, for which you could most certainly be forgiven

Every single verse that christians say condemn it are badly misquoted or mis-translated, as follows:

Fornication is a definition of a sexual sin in the bible which in the dictionary refers to sex outside of marriage.
But if you examine this you will see the original greek work was 'inappropriate contentia/inappropriate contenteia' (which is where the word 'inappropriate content' comes from), which was a shorthand word encapsuating the jewish sexual prohibitions.
Now if we look at those, we see various sins such as incest, inappropriate behavior with animals, homosexuality etc but nowhere does it mention sex before marriage!

Just assuming the point so far. Still waiting for the argument to begin...

So with that one nullified, lets look at an often quoted verse (in John 4) on the subject about Jesus saying to the woman at the well that she had already had 5 husbands and the man she is living with now isn't her husband. The woman was amazed at his word of knowledge and spread the word that Jesus was the son of God.

Nowhere does Jesus condemn her for not being married to her lover, it was simply a word of knowledge and I'm amazed that christians still quote this verse of evidence that the bible condems sex outside of marriage.

Yeah, but it still presumes a difference between "husband" and "man you're currently living with." Just because Jesus doesn't nail her for her sins (he didn't nail the adulteress in chap. 8, either) doesn't even imply that, in his book, it's not sinful behavior.

Another often quoted verse is Genesis 2:24 "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh."
At first glance this appears to be about a married couple, but if you investigate this you will discover that the word for 'wife' in this verse in hebrew is 'ishshah (ish-shaw')' which simply meant 'a woman' and is used elsewhere in the old testament to describe any woman, married or unmarried (there is no actual Hebrew word for wife).

So the verse is basically saying that it is natural for a man and a woman to leave their parents homes and live together in a sexual relationship.
Nothing more.

You're right. Monogamy does not necessarily require a single partner for the whole of one's life.

However, later in the Pentateuch specific rules are made to deal with women whose husbands have died. Since (in that culture) no one wants to marry a widow, if they have no children, the dead husband's brother must impregnate the woman. We see this custom operating in Gen. 38, among other places.

Now we understand why the issue is not addressed, at least in Jewish religious texts. No one wanted to marry a woman who had already been married. Nowadays marriage is entirely different -- we become emotionally unattached to our spouses, and this incites divorce. Divorce is so commonplace that divorced men and women regularly remarry.

And no christian can use this verse to say 'one flesh' means that God only wants us to have one sexual partner throught our entire lives, as right through the old testament the great and blessed 'men of god' were polygamous. Even Abraham had many concubines as well as sleeping with his servant girl etc.

So, would you conclude from this that it's okay for YOU to have a concubine?

You might say well God didn't want them to do that, but you have no evidence because nowhere in the old testament does God condemn them having more than one wife or concubines and he even made laws to govern such acts!

God also makes laws about the treatment of slaves. Does this imply that God supports the institution of slavery? The Confederates certainly thought so.... The point is that just because, at some point in history, something was culturally acceptable, doesn't mean it constitutes the "religious ideal" of our common religion -- if we assume some common threads running from Abraham all the way to our modern day Christianity.

Lastly, in the new testament, Paul does mention briefly in one verse about sex before marriage, 1 Corinthians 7: "But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband".
Again, like the hebrew, the greek word for 'wife' (gunaikos) is the same as 'woman' also the word for 'husband' (andres) is the same word for 'male' or an adult man.

That's fine. What you're not addressing, though, is that the Bible DOES address the issue of "what constitutes a legitimate reason for divorce." There aren't exactly very many. Certainly not "He/She doesn't understand me"! I've heard it said that the three most common reasons for divorce these days is problems with communication, money and sex. None of these are acceptable reasons for divorce, as far as the Bible is concerned. So, if we accept that monogamy is a biblical presumption, then are we left in a very different spot than most people already make of Christian marriage? I say, not very. Faithfulness and long-term commitment " 'til death or infidelity do us part" still seems pretty critical for a Christian perspective of marriage.

Also, even if Paul were actually referring to people being legally married, what about the rest of his teachings. Soon after the previous verse he condemns divorced people getting remarried (which most churches nowadays ignore) and many times he sees woman as second class citizens who should not teach a man and must keep their heads covered etc.
So if you choose to obey the previous verse so not have sex before marriage then you do really have to obey the whole of the new testament/god's word and not pick and choose, otherwise you are basically deciding for yourself which bits are right and which are wrong.

It's a bit more complicated than that. Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Any interpretation of ancient religious texts involve choosing which parts can be left alone, and which parts need to be updated culturally-speaking.

So, like I say, I cannot see anywhere in the bible that condemns sex before marriage, but if anyone can show me where is says it, go ahead.
I will believe you if you can prove it to me.
(And please don't just try to justify it moraly, please just refer to the bible)

There are also texts in the Pentateuch that order people who have sex "before marriage" and are unwed, that they be married. So for ancient Jewish faith, sex between unmarried people pretty much bound them in marital union. To break that union... Now that's the stickler.

There have always been lots of people having uncommitted sex, for the fun of it. I'm one of those people. But let's not get silly and suppose that Christianity got it wrong (biblically speaking) when it condemned that activity as a sinful one. On this point, the Bible consistently agrees with modern Christianity. Sex outside of marriage, unless it quickly results in a marriage (=committed sexual, social, spiritual union), is against God's ideal for humanity.

Of course, it's probably a whole lot healthier than a whole generation of 16-36 year-olds sitting at their computer at midnight every night jacking off watching Internet inappropriate content. I don't think God created the inappropriate content industry to solve the problem of sexual desire prior to the culturally acceptable age of marriage, which can be atrociously long for some of us. So if you're not ready to get married and can't control your sexual desires, consider uncommitted sexual relations as the better (albeit riskier) alternative to inappropriate content.