Sex Before Marriage (confused)

[OracleX]

Today at 02:09 AM nomad said this in Post #78

I haven't seen anyone of you define exactly what sin is.

Sin is breaking any the law of God.  Sin is exercising our free will against Gods ways.

Now if sin is disobediance to God then what is it that God has said to jacqueB personally about this issue?

Sin is sin.  God will not say to one person that an ack is sin then turn around to another person and say that its ok I understand.  If God did that He would not be a holy and righteous God, or atleast not the God of the Bible.

Another question is this, "Why does God ask us to do or not do something?"

Really, we are His creation and He set down one rule for us.  It was to protect us and keep us in a wonderful relationship with Him.  But that one rule was broken in the garden which opened up a big can of worms which required more rules to keep us in a right relationship with God.  Rules and laws do not bring us salvation as that is a free gift from Christ, but how we deal with Gods laws will be seen in our lives and in judgement.

Looking at the sexual aspect here are some thoughts; 

We all agree that incest is wrong and that God has declared it to be wrong.  So then why was it okay between the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve?  Another thing that we would all agree upon is that God has said that a man should have one wife and vice a versa yet when King David was punished by the Lord for having the Husband of Bethsheba killed, within the Lord's statements was "....I have given you many wives".

Why is it that the Holy Spirit inspired the author to write "what is right for one may not be right for another."?

Why was God upset when the people of Israel asked for a King?  What did He say to this quest for a King?

The Bible is clear that what was done by the kings was wrong, that they were not to have more than one wife.  In fact that is one of the main reasons why King Solomon lost his kingdom.  God judged him for going against him and having many wives.  David was the same, God judged him for taking more than one wife.

The Bible is not just a book of good examples, in fact the old testement is a good example of bad examples.  There is no one who has ever been or who will ever be born that will be excepted from Gods law. 

Are any of you Prophets called of God that you may speak His word?

I am no prophet but I speak His Word.  One does not have to be a prophet to speak the Word of God.  His Word has been written for all of us and for all of us to know.

Why did Jesus say to the adulteress woman "they do not condemn you neither do I."?

First of all, you take this out of context.  The whole point of what Jesus was saying is that they could not throw a stone because they were not without sin.  Jesus turned a legal debat in to a moral debat.  He said that let the one with no sin cast the first stone.  That is why He then said that they do not condem you and He wasn't going to do it either.  He wasn't going to stone her.  It is clear that He was not condoning adultery.  He showed compassion on her and told her to sin no more.  Sin no more.  Not I understand your situation, go back to your boyfriend.  Sin no more.

If you cannot answer any of these questions with the Authority and full knowledge of Jesus Himself then you may only share your views with jaqueB and not say she is right or wrong.

jaqueB I hope you read this, I find you not guilty according to that which God has given to me.  But, for your own sake and concious get a piece of paper that says you're married.  And ask God as I have, to put it in the heart of you and your husband to be, what it is to be married and committed to one another til death do you part.  Trust no man and obey God.

Those of you who read this be careful of what you think or say of me for "whatever you have done to your brother, you have done it to me".

I must say that you have me confused.  Up to this last part you are saying that no one is to judge and yet you in the end judge yourself.  You say that you find her not guilty.  Then say trust no man.  And you say that you find her not guiltly but then say go get married.  You lost me in contradictions there.

 

[nomad]

Are you saying that you don't have a priest or minsiter or justice of the peace to marry you? You are not living in the middle ages. Have you ever read much about the middle ages?

Who performed the first Holy Matrimony between Adam and Eve?  Was it not God Himself. 

Is not Jesus Himself refered to as "our High Priest".

 

The Word of God is steadfast and true forever.

This statement is fact.  Then if a man and women go before the High Priest to be united as one then why do you require proof of this.  Is it not because of your own sin?

 

Sin is breaking any the law of God. Sin is exercising our free will against Gods ways.

So what exactly is His law, what are His ways?

 

Sin is sin. God will not say to one person that an ack is sin then turn around to another person and say that its ok I understand. If God did that He would not be a holy and righteous God, or atleast not the God of the Bible.

Then obviously you have misunderstood what I have written, why I wrote it and what my intent was for writing it.  Since you do not see fully what I have written then how is it you say you fully understand with absolute certainty His ways and laws?

 

I am no prophet but I speak His Word. One does not have to be a prophet to speak the Word of God. His Word has been written for all of us and for all of us to know.

I agree with this, but it is the "Know" part that I want for you.  What we think we know may not actually be what it is.  I found this out very early in my relationship with the Lord.  My own understanding of His Word was not correct.  It was by the Holy Spirit that I came to really know Him and the truth and His ways.

I must say that you have me confused. Up to this last part you are saying that no one is to judge and yet you in the end judge yourself. You say that you find her not guilty. Then say trust no man. And you say that you find her not guiltly but then say go get married. You lost me in contradictions there.

To someone who does not know the Lord feels this way about the Bible.  Now, here you are a fellow believer saying the same thing about my word.  There are no contradictions in what I have stated.  If you knew me, you would clearly see what I have meant.  You wouldn't question it at all.

 

[nomad]

Now there are some of you that think that I may be in agreement with "sex before marriage".  This is not the case.  I have a good understanding why God has said "no sex" before marriage.  I have asked Him about this and marriage and have talked to Him as a son would speak with His Father.  I find His counsel wise and just.

He asks us to do this or that because He loves us.

For everyone of us there is a different circumstance with a whole lot of factors involved.  To take the "Word of God" and just say they are wrong or right without knowing all of the circumstances is presumption.

 

[Memory's Flame]

Life works in funny ways sometimes... if you are lucky (which I am very! ) you find that one person that you love more than anything, and you want to spend the rest of your life with someone. Unfortunatly sometimes, there isn't money for a wedding, or other things stand in the way... so you chose to not get married right away. But you still have the committment and the obligation to spend the rest of your lives with each other. At that point you move in together, knowing that one day, when it's right, you will get married... but for the time your arrangement is right.

 

 

[OracleX]

Nomad,

If you cannot answer any of these questions with the Authority and full knowledge of Jesus Himself then you may only share your views with jaqueB and not say she is right or wrong.

jaqueB I hope you read this, I find you not guilty according to that which God has given to me.  But, for your own sake and concious get a piece of paper that says you're married.  And ask God as I have, to put it in the heart of you and your husband to be, what it is to be married and committed to one another til death do you part.  Trust no man and obey God.

Those of you who read this be careful of what you think or say of me for "whatever you have done to your brother, you have done it to me".

OK lets return to your final statement before for a minute.  First of all almost everything you had been saying up to this point was saying that we are not to judge.  Ok, then why pronounce judgement with such a sound of authority that you don't have.

jaqueB I hope you read this, I find you not guilty according to that which God has given to me.

So first of all you say don't judge others then you turn around and judge yourself.

In your judgement you say that she is not guilty of sin in your books but you contradict yourself once again by telling her that she should get married.  Why get married if she is not sinning?

Then you say to trust no man.  So what is the point of you pronouncing judgement and telling her what to do.  She shouldn't trust what you say if she listens to what you say.

In any case, I was not confused by what you said because you said something deep, yet because your logic and your arguments made no sense.

OK then on with your next reply.  Who married Adam and Eve?  They were not married in the garden.  There was only one rule in the garden.  In the begining stages of the history of man it does not appear that there were marriages as there was further on down.  But as man sins and becomes twisted God had to address and put laws in place.  Going back and asking who married Adam and Eve doesn't do anything but delay the argument.  The fact is that later on in the Bible is does say that marriage is needed and talks about marriage.  You can not go back before the law and say that they broke the law when it never existed yet.

This statement is fact.  Then if a man and women go before the High Priest to be united as one then why do you require proof of this.  Is it not because of your own sin?

Why? Because the Bible says so.  It doesn't say anything about it being a priest although in our government it is a minister or a justice of the peace that can marry a couple.

So what exactly is His law, what are His ways?

Read the Bible and you will know.  The ten commandments is a good place to start.  The move on to Jesus's commandments.  God has made His law and His ways known in His Word.

Then obviously you have misunderstood what I have written, why I wrote it and what my intent was for writing it.  Since you do not see fully what I have written then how is it you say you fully understand with absolute certainty His ways and laws?

How do we know with absolute certainty His ways and laws?  By reading them in His Word.  The Word says that we are not to commit adultery, that is a fact.  The Word says that we are not to commit fornication, that is a fact.  We can have certainty that these things are wrong as it states very clearly in the Bible that they are.

I agree with this, but it is the "Know" part that I want for you.  What we think we know may not actually be what it is.  I found this out very early in my relationship with the Lord.  My own understanding of His Word was not correct.  It was by the Holy Spirit that I came to really know Him and the truth and His ways.

What is the misunderstanding here?  The Bible is clear on these issues.  I don't know about your understanding that you had but the Bible is not a complex book of hidden meanings and riddles that need to be cracked.  This is a letter from God to those He loves.  It is not here to confuse us, yet to reveal truth and bring us closer to Him.  Where have we misunderstood the Word?  Please let me know.

To someone who does not know the Lord feels this way about the Bible.  Now, here you are a fellow believer saying the same thing about my word.  There are no contradictions in what I have stated.  If you knew me, you would clearly see what I have meant.  You wouldn't question it at all.

Mentioned this at the top of this post.  I am not confused about what the Bible says on this issue, I was confused by how you contradicted your self three times in one paragraph.  The thing is is that I do not know you yet, and they way you said it was contratdicting yourself.  Please let me know what you do mean.

Now there are some of you that think that I may be in agreement with "sex before marriage".  This is not the case.  I have a good understanding why God has said "no sex" before marriage.  I have asked Him about this and marriage and have talked to Him as a son would speak with His Father.  I find His counsel wise and just.

By judging Jaque and saying she is not quilty you are saying that sex before marriage is ok.

For everyone of us there is a different circumstance with a whole lot of factors involved.  To take the "Word of God" and just say they are wrong or right without knowing all of the circumstances is presumption.

What other circumstances need to be known about one who is having sex before marriage?  The Bible clearly states that this is fornication and or adultery.  The circumstances may be interesting and tough and made you feel like there is no other options but it does not change the fact that it is sin.  To say that our sin is based on our circumstances in life is to say that there are excuses for our sin and thus it is not sin.  There is nothing in the Bible to support such a claim.

Nomad, if you like I can supply you with Biblical proof that sex before marriage is sin.  I can also give you Biblical proof that marriage is required between a man and a women - and not just something in your heart, but a legally binding certificate.  If like I can also give you scripture that shows that living together before marriage is a dangerous thing to do.

God bless.

 

[OracleX]

Today at 06:52 PM JacqueB said this in Post #86

Life works in funny ways sometimes... if you are lucky (which I am very! ) you find that one person that you love more than anything, and you want to spend the rest of your life with someone. Unfortunatly sometimes, there isn't money for a wedding, or other things stand in the way... so you chose to not get married right away. But you still have the committment and the obligation to spend the rest of your lives with each other. At that point you move in together, knowing that one day, when it's right, you will get married... but for the time your arrangement is right.

 

When the time is right?  You are talking about when it is right for you, not when it is right in Gods eyes.  I am not trying to say that you are a bad person, on the contrary.  I care very much about you and Jill.  The thing is that you are choosing your way and usings excuses not to go Gods way.  All these posts are not to put you down or to make you look bad, people are trying to help you relalize that you are deceiving yourself when you say that what you are doing is right.  We are not trying to be condemning but answer your questions.

The other reason why some of us are energetic in this is so that other are not lead astray.  Some of us speak from personal experience in this area and know the bad effects of sinning against God in this way.  There are consequences for our sins.  We are forgiven, but we still must live up to what we have done.  We don't want to see other make these mistakes and we want to help you realize and get free of the situation you are in.

God bless and you are in our prayers.

 

[nomad]

OracleX,

I didn't even bother to read what you wrote.  It's obvious to me you have a lot to learn.

My prayers are with you.

God Bless

 

[Memory's Flame]

Nomad;
Maybe you should read what Oracle has written; as maybe he has lots to learn; but maybe...just maybe... he also has many intelligent things to say!

 

[OracleX]

Nomad,

Your response is sad. Regaurdless of what you have posted I have taken the time to respond to you honestly. I know there is much much more that I need to learn and that will be the case till I die. But it is a shame that you totaly disregaurd me and don't give me the time of day. It is interesting, you say that you did not bother to read what I said and yet you say that I obviously have much to learn. How would you know I have a lot to learn if you never read my posts? Yet another contradiction.

There is a difference between you and Jaque and Jill. lol Jaque and Jill run up the hill .... lol sorry They are asking questions and soul searching on a very difficult issue in thier life. They are asking for help and asking people to answer their questions. They may not like the answers and they know that doing the right thing is sometimes the hardest thing. Sure we have not seen eye to eye but we have heard each other out and tried to help each other understand. You do not seem to be interested in that. I am more than willing to discuss this with you further if you want to PM me.

God bless

 

[nomad]

OracleX,

I have an idea that may benefit all of us.  Lets begin a new thread but before we do I want to explain something to you about myself that I will privately email you.  Then we can begin our discussion.

If you're okay with that, reply, I will then send a pm and bring some blessings to each other.

 

[Memory's Flame]

I'm sorry to jump in the middle again; but I think that starting a new thread would be a WONDERFUL idea!

 

[nomad]

Let's do it. Name it something in your reply post and create the thread.  I have already pm'ed oraclex.

 

[Memory's Flame]

me name it? You go ahead and start it! I'm doing a billion things right now!

 

[nomad]

Ok,

Sex, When Is It Right?

 

[Memory's Flame]

you want me to start it?? Ok... I'm off right now!