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PURE UNMITIGATED BUNK! Anyone going to any of our schools would know that. We even had a student (one that I know of) from another denomination attending our seminary at Andrews.
I had a lady friend who was a teacher and I helped her prepare for class and grade the papers--there was NO such thing as a "SDA curriculum." The schools MUST teach certain things per state rules--but, that was it.
And high school. A person in my household taught at an academy in 2004-2006. This doesn't mean Bible teachers like it or use it exclusively.Yes, there is such a thing as SDA curriculum. I'm not sure what it is like for college, but there is a specific Bible curriculum for elementary students.
I taught Bible classes in 3 different academies and was on the committee that put together the curriculum for the academies. EGW is an essential element of the curriculum, and in fact, when her writings are not promoted enough pressure is put on the Bible teachers (especially) for not making her writings a focus in the classroom. In one of the conferences I worked at it was mandated that the teachers (elementary and academy) made a conserted effort to focus students on her writings.Not bunk. I didn't question it at the time because I was SDA, but our class assignments in the Gospels class was to read EGW and fill in the answers to questions. I went to 2 SDA colleges. I'm not making this up and no - I will not name names. If you want to search it out it was one of the colleges listed in my profile and I believe the professor was the head of the religion department if I remember correctly.
While this may be true with some subjects, such as English or History, for the most part the academy Bible curriculum is standard across the board. The curriculum I taught from in one place is the same (books) that are taught in another. In fact, I had to attend national SDA Bible conferences where all the Bible teachers get together and meet in order to corroborate how the books are to be used. The last one I attended was in Pittsburg, PA with several hundred Bible teachers present. The Bible curriculum is not left up to the individual teacher like it might be in other subjects.All schools have a curriculum. What does not exist is a specific one for all SDA schools. For instance, when teaching reading they'll say these are the books you use for the course and that's it--the teacher has to decide what will be taught out of those books. The same things happens when you go to any school.
Jim,
I'm sure it is difficult to understand in your shoes. I know you believe what you believe with 100% of your being. I praise God that He used the SDA church to bring you to Him.
In most instances, people who have left the SDA church due to doctrinal issues have not left suddenly. For me it was a period of 8 years so it was anything but suddenly.
I think one of the bigger issues regarding EGW is that she is viewed as equal to the Bible or some view the Bible as inspired as her - in other words the level of inspiration is viewed as comparable. I realize not all SDAs believe that, but I would say a great deal do.
I do find that the major issues with the IJ are twofold. To accept the IJ you must believe that the atonement was incomplete when Jesus ascended to His Father. Also, it has Jesus examining our works to see if we are worthy for heaven which is a works-based salvation. To me those are not small things - but major things.
But the reason I left the SDA church in the first place was not because of those things because I didn't accept the incomplete atonement or the inspiration of EGW and was an SDA many years with those beliefs. I left because of the remnant status and the belief that SDAs needed to make Christians into SDAs so they would be saved in the end times.
Actually the IJ points to the justice of the Lord. How he can declare (some)sinners righteous while others (unrepentant) are condemned. It is not about our works, it is about God's grace.
There is no examination of works to see who is and who is not saved.
That is exactly the misunderstanding I am talking about. It is not an examination to see who is and who is not saved.
Investigative judgment as Part of the Program of God
In view of the principles here set forth, it seems to us abundantly clear that the acceptance of Christ at conversion does not seal a person's destiny. His life record after conversion is also important. A man may go back on his repentance, or by careless inattention let slip the very life he has espoused. Nor can it be said that a man's record is closed when he comes to the end of his days. He is responsible for his influence during life, and is just as surely responsible for his evil influence after he is dead. To quote the words of the poet, "The evil that men do lives after them," leaving a trail of sin to be charged to the account. In order to be just, it would seem that God would need to take all these things into account in the judgment.
That there should be a judgment is not strange; the Scriptures reveal it as part of the eternal purpose of God (Acts 17:31), and all His ways are just. Were God alone concerned, there would be no need of an investigation of the life records of men in this judgment, for as our eternal Sovereign God, He is omniscient. He knows the end from the beginning. Even before the creation of the world He knew man would sin and that he would need a Saviour. Moreover, as Sovereign God, He also knows just who will accept and who will reject His "great salvation" (Heb. 2:3).
421 If God alone were concerned, there would certainly be no need of records. But that the inhabitants of the whole universe, the good and evil angels, and all who have ever lived on this earth might understand His love and His justice, the life history of every individual who has ever lived on the earth has been recorded, and in the judgment these records will be disclosed—for every man will be judged according to what is revealed in "the books" of record (Dan. 7:10; Rev. 20:12).
God's love and justice have been challenged by Satan and his hosts. The archdeceiver and enemy of all righteousness has made it appear that God is unjust.
Therefore in infinite wisdom God has determined to resolve every doubt forever. He does this by making bare before the entire universe the full story of sin, its inception and its history. It will then be apparent why He as the God of love and of justice must ultimately reject the impenitent, who have allied themselves with the forces of rebellion.
The Bible curriculum is not left up to the individual teacher like it might be in other subjects.
The daily curriculum is laid out for the teacher, especially in the 9th and 10th grade books. It even tells them how many days should be spent on each lesson.Simply because you are told which book you will use does not mean that the daily curriculum is all laid out for the teacher. Nor, does it dictate what you will teach about the Bible. They do not tell you that you WILL teach specific doctrines, etc..
There is no judgment of works to determine why someone is or is not saved. Works don't save. Works don't make you lost.
Then, by default, you believe in righteousness by works. How can you say we 'may' not be saved by our works, then turn around and say we can be lost by works? That's an oxymoron.This is definetely a once saved always saved philosophy which has no support Biblically. The Bible makes it very clear that we can go back to our sins and be held accountable in the end for them. Works may not save us but they sure can cost us our eternal salvation. Especially if we don't confess and repent of them.
God Bless
Jim Larmore
Then, by default, you believe in righteousness by works. How can you say we 'may' not be saved by our works, then turn around and say we can be lost by works? That's an oxymoron.
In the same book he also establishes that confession and repentance are not something that we do (not our works), but we experience them when they come from God. However, it sounds like you see them as being your own 'works' (something that YOU do), which again, by default, means you would believe in righteousness by works since you must 'do' them in order to be saved.
So, do you agree or disagree with Venden?
It doesn't matter how you break this down, it's salvation by law keeping. And yet you've admitted multiple times that you violate the very law you're claiming to keep. Are you saved? If you are will you still be tomorrow? What about next week? Month? Year? What if you've forgotten about a few sins and didn't confess and repent of each one individually (righteousness by works)? Where is your security? Do you not believe that Jesus 'destroyed sins power' in your life, as Paul said he did? Do you not believe you're under the new covenant, that he has 'forgiven our iniquity and remembers our sins no more'?No it's not. The Bible makes it clear that those who will be lost are those who practice bad works and will be judged by them. It makes no sense at all to say I am saved by grace and then go out and sin with impunity. We may not be slaves to sin and are not saved by our works but we are slaves to righteousness and to a loving Saviour that is crucified afresh every time we sin. Sin is defined as the transgression of the law and we cannot sin without some kind of sinful work that violates God's law or to do what we know to be right.
So you disagree with Venden? I noticed you didn't even address the first thesis statement (Good works don't cause us to be saved. Bad works don't cause us to be lost.)Our confession may be prompted by the Holy Spirit but God does not force it upon us so yes it is our work to confess and repent. Otherwise, we loose our free will.
God Bless
Jim Larmore
Hmm, the Bible says that "the wages of sin is death." Sure sounds lost to me.
If not then you don't need to be saved and you don't need a Savior. I'm real glad that the SDA church taught me both!
This is definetely a once saved always saved philosophy which has no support Biblically. The Bible makes it very clear that we can go back to our sins and be held accountable in the end for them. Works may not save us but they sure can cost us our eternal salvation. Especially if we don't confess and repent of them.
God Bless
Jim Larmore
We may not be slaves to sin and are not saved by our works but we are slaves to righteousness and to a loving Saviour that is crucified afresh every time we sin. Sin is defined as the transgression of the law and we cannot sin without some kind of sinful work that violates God's law or to do what we know to be right.
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