Seventh Day Adventist's theological View Point on..

[Luv2fish]

Where do you believe they think the choirmaster of heaven and one third of the angels disappeared to?

I believe they were cast down to the earth and are here.

 

[sentipente]

I believe they were cast down to the earth and are here.

I guess you are saying that the "unfallen angels" know that Lucifer and his gang were cast down to earth. Do you think they have questions about that?

 

[Jimlarmore]

You think anything that happens on earth can be worse than the introduction of dissension in heaven? There is no evidence that human life has not proceeded exactly as it was supposed to proceed but they had evidence that something changed the atmosphere in heaven. That argument does not hold water.

The Bible tells us that God created a perfect world initially. Sin was not part of the original plan. So the course of human history has not proceeded as it was intially intended to proceed. The Bible clearly tells us that there was war in heaven between satan and Michael. Satan was cast out of heaven to the earth. The good angels were part of casting satan out so they wouldn't have any questions as to why it happened they were fully aware of why he was cast out.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[sentipente]

The good angels were part of casting satan out so they wouldn't have any questions as to why it happened they were fully aware of why he was cast out.

So why do we keep hearing talk of sin having to work itself out? The angels seemed to have been satisfied when he was thrown out.

 

[freeindeed2]

The Bible tells us that God created a perfect world initially. Sin was not part of the original plan. So the course of human history has not proceeded as it was intially intended to proceed. The Bible clearly tells us that there was war in heaven between satan and Michael. Satan was cast out of heaven to the earth. The good angels were part of casting satan out so they wouldn't have any questions as to why it happened they were fully aware of why he was cast out.

God Bless
Jim Larmore

This is interesting. There was 'war' in heaven, Satan and a third of the angels are cast out of heaven to the earth. This happened before the earth was created. But you say that sin was not a part of creation even though a tree was placed in the garden with Satan being in the tree in the form of a snake with the ability to tempt humanity to sin. While God certainly didn't 'create' sin as part of creation, the element of sin was certainly present from the beginning.

 

[Jimlarmore]

This is interesting. There was 'war' in heaven, Satan and a third of the angels are cast out of heaven to the earth. This happened before the earth was created. But you say that sin was not a part of creation even though a tree was placed in the garden with Satan being in the tree in the form of a snake with the ability to tempt humanity to sin. While God certainly didn't 'create' sin as part of creation, the element of sin was certainly present from the beginning.

Very true an element of sin was there but the original creation had no sin in it and was perfect. Even the tree of knowledge which was created by God was a perfect tree. It was placed there by God with very clear and distinct instructions to not eat of it. Our parents "chose" to disobey our creator and by doing that brought sin to our world. Who knows now but if our parents had chosen not to eat of it after being tempted the tree may have been removed after a time.

The way things have gone though has proven that sin must be given a time to present itself before the whole universe to see it's fruit,,,, it's great consequences.

God bless
Jim Larmore

 

[sentipente]

The way things have gone though has proven that sin must be given a time to present itself before the whole universe to see it's fruit,,,, it's great consequences.

Who told you that any inhabitants in distant galaxies are observing events on earth? Where do you find this bit of information?

 

[Jimlarmore]

Who told you that any inhabitants in distant galaxies are observing events on earth? Where do you find this bit of information?

What ? Haven't you been keeping up with the UFO sightings over the years?

Seriously though, The only thing that is Biblical is the account of Satan going to a council meeting in heaven when the son's of God were gathered in the book of Job. I believe the son's of God were beings from unfallen worlds. Satan's report to God of his walk on earth and then of Job made them aware of what was going on here. Additionally, I think the great controversy is a topic that all unfallen beings are keenly aware of because had Christ not succeeded here on earth sin could have wound up infecting the entire universe.

When one looks out into the vastness of the universe it would take one less than intelligent to think we are the only intelligences in the entire creation. Why wouldn't they want to be watching what is going on here, at least in a general way?

God bless
Jim Larmore

 

[sentipente]

What is a "general" way?

 

[OntheDL]

This is interesting. There was 'war' in heaven, Satan and a third of the angels are cast out of heaven to the earth. This happened before the earth was created. But you say that sin was not a part of creation even though a tree was placed in the garden with Satan being in the tree in the form of a snake with the ability to tempt humanity to sin. While God certainly didn't 'create' sin as part of creation, the element of sin was certainly present from the beginning.

If Lucifer and his followers were cast down to the earth that had to be AFTER the earth was created, correct?

God who does not take away our ability to choose use that as a test of loyalty.

 

[sentipente]

If Lucifer and his followers were cast down to the earth that had to be AFTER the earth was created, correct?

You have a rather strange opinion of God. According to this you believe that God looked through the entire universal directory and selected us to put through the wringer. I don't get it.

 

[OntheDL]

Who told you that any inhabitants in distant galaxies are observing events on earth? Where do you find this bit of information?

Paul under the influence of the holy spirit.

1 Cor 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

 

[sentipente]

Paul under the influence of the holy spirit.

1 Cor 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

So you think the distant galaxies are inhabited by angels?

 

[OntheDL]

You have a rather strange opinion of God. According to this you believe that God looked through the entire universal directory and selected us to put through the wringer. I don't get it.

Hmm...the same argument the unbelievers always give!

Consider it a privilege! If you are redeemed, you shall dwell with the creator of the universe and this earth will be the new heaven, the center of the universe!

Take the frown off of your face and rejoice!

 

[OntheDL]

So you think the distant galaxies are inhabited by angels?

which part of Paul statement do you think I implied that?

 

[sentipente]

Paul under the influence of the holy spirit.

1 Cor 4:9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.

Well, the choice is between angels and men. Men inhabit the earth so the other choice is angels. Get it?

 

[freeindeed2]

If Lucifer and his followers were cast down to the earth that had to be AFTER the earth was created, correct?

So you believe that the 'war' in heaven took place after man was created. And after the 'war' Satan came to earth to the 'tree'? So, when did God give the command to Adam and Eve not to touch the fruit?

 

[Cliff2]

Even for babies born blind or children who get a terminal illness?

Still the sin problem is the route cause of all suffering.

It may sound too simple but that is what you wanted.

The problem all started back in heaven when Lucifer sinned. God had a problem, SIN.

The middle letter of that word is "I".

It is still the problem today.

As for babies that are born with problems we can look at the big picture and see again it is basically just sin that is the problem.

God could not get rid of Lucifer without making the sin problem bigger than it was.

But on calvary we see just what the devil would try and do to get rid of the Son of God.

Then and only then did the unfallen worlds know what it was all about. The angels from heaven also found out just what an evil being Lucifer was.

Praise the Lord the vitory was won and we are now free if we only will accept the gift given because of the blood from calvary in Jesus Christ.

 

[moicherie]

The sin question is something that baffles me. We say God is our father right? All of you who are parents if you had the power to prevent your children from years of suffering by an abuser would you prevent it or let the abuse 'play itself out'? Another example if you knew someone evil was going to kidnap one of your children would you stand there and let them be taken away just to show the other children what it means to suffer?

 

[sentipente]

I agree, Moi. However, sin is baffling only because of false theology concerning the nature of the Creator, as you indirectly indicated. When we insist on "an active and personal" God then we bring his "non-action"into focus. The problem is that He never claimed to be what we insist that He is.

(This is my fellowship contribution. I'd be willing to debate this idea in the debate or progressive forum.)