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catlover
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The reason there is suffering in this world. Can someone give me a simple view point about this from the Adventist point of view. Please? 
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OK I'll give this one a try. Remember this is my opinion but I believe most Adventist would generally agree. However I speak for myself and not the Adventist Church as a whole.
Angels and beings from other inhabited planets [not our solar system] have free will. God has created them to worship Him love and respect. Lucifer rebelled against God's system and somehow convinced 1/3 of the angels to follow him. God was faced with the choice to wipe out Lucifer and his followers or show the rest of the angels that Lucifer and his angels ways were wrong and God's way was right. But if God wiped out Lucifer immediatly the other free willed angels and other created beings might always wonder if Lucifer was really right. So God decided to allow Satan to have enough rope to hang himself. He allowed Satan to tempt Man. Unfortunatly Man made the wrong choice. God is allowing Satan to have his day so all of the created beings in our universe will see what Satan really is. Once that time is up Satan and his followers will be destroyed never to again cause the pain and suffering they have caused. Imagine what the angels in heaven must of thought when they saw that Christ was willing to die to redem fallen Man and what they must have tought when they realized Satan was willing to Kill Christ.
I veiw our pain and suffering here on Earth like I view a Cancer surgery. Its painful but necessary to get rid of a destructive force.
Angels and beings from other inhabited planets [not our solar system] have free will. God has created them to worship Him love and respect. Lucifer rebelled against God's system and somehow convinced 1/3 of the angels to follow him. God was faced with the choice to wipe out Lucifer and his followers or show the rest of the angels that Lucifer and his angels ways were wrong and God's way was right. But if God wiped out Lucifer immediatly the other free willed angels and other created beings might always wonder if Lucifer was really right. So God decided to allow Satan to have enough rope to hang himself. He allowed Satan to tempt Man. Unfortunatly Man made the wrong choice. God is allowing Satan to have his day so all of the created beings in our universe will see what Satan really is. Once that time is up Satan and his followers will be destroyed never to again cause the pain and suffering they have caused. Imagine what the angels in heaven must of thought when they saw that Christ was willing to die to redem fallen Man and what they must have tought when they realized Satan was willing to Kill Christ.
I veiw our pain and suffering here on Earth like I view a Cancer surgery. Its painful but necessary to get rid of a destructive force.
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catlover
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Can some other Adventists give their POV on this? I am not looking to argue just learn about what some denominations teach on the subject.
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I agree whole heartedly with ThreeAM's take on suffering and would go so far as to say that a majority of the Adventists - who typically view the gospel in the light of the great controversy between God and His adversary - would agree with it as well.
Nicely put ThreeAM, I praise the Lord.
2Tim
Nicely put ThreeAM, I praise the Lord.
2Tim
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Well I think the cause of suffering is sin. If there was no sin, there would be no suffering. As for babies born with blindess and/or terminal illness, I don't know the reason for that. Of course this is caused by their parents, for example if the birthmother drank during birth, can cause defects, or if they both have a recessive CF gene, the child may be born with Cystic Fibrosis. I would just have to say the child got more unlucky than the rest of us, were all born into an unfair sinful world and bad things happen, but if turn to God, He will deliver us from sufferings and pains. I also do agree with ThreeAM's post, God puts us through trials to purify us, we must feel our need of God. If everything goes right for us and we have no problems, then people will not see the need of God and will ignore Him. Trials also strengthen our faith, we must have faith in God and what He can and will do for us.
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catlover
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Purifying. So you basically believe suffering creates spiritual fruits?
It makes sense.
It makes sense.
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I have heard it preached by some of our pastors an explanation for the cause of suffering in our world.
First and foremost it is caused by Satan.
1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
1Pe 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
1Pe 5:11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
The Devils sole mission on this earth is to destroy those who follow God, but he also takes pleasure in any suffering and death. He spends his time roaming the earth doing as much damage as possible.
Job 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Satan spent time tempting Jesus in the wilderness (this involved physical as well as spiritual torments, which is why angels came to him afterwards). How can we expect any less?
Mar 1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
We know for sure that Satan is here and he is the author of misery.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:12 ... Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
The day is coming when God will destroy all that is evil and no one will ever suffer again.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
But we also know that the above descriptions are of heaven and the earth made new.
Until God destroys everything that causes sin, the suffering will go on.
Think about it this way; You have a child and that child is taken captive by a terrible enemy. That enemy causes harm to your child.
How does this make you feel? Terrible, angry, full of pain and sorrow, a desire so strong that it consumes your every waking and sleeping moment prevails - you would do anything to set your child free - even give your own life.
This is what God has done, given His own life (in the person of His son Jesus Christ) to be the sacrifice for sin to set the captives free.
But the enemy is yet to be completely and utterly destroyed for ever.
Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
Until Satan is gone suffering will continue.
But the day is coming when all suffering will be forgotten.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
May we all meet on that sea of glass before the throne of God.
Your sister in Christ,
Lauri
First and foremost it is caused by Satan.
1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
1Pe 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
1Pe 5:10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.
1Pe 5:11 To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
The Devils sole mission on this earth is to destroy those who follow God, but he also takes pleasure in any suffering and death. He spends his time roaming the earth doing as much damage as possible.
Job 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Satan spent time tempting Jesus in the wilderness (this involved physical as well as spiritual torments, which is why angels came to him afterwards). How can we expect any less?
Mar 1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
We know for sure that Satan is here and he is the author of misery.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 12:12 ... Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
The day is coming when God will destroy all that is evil and no one will ever suffer again.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.
But we also know that the above descriptions are of heaven and the earth made new.
Until God destroys everything that causes sin, the suffering will go on.
Think about it this way; You have a child and that child is taken captive by a terrible enemy. That enemy causes harm to your child.
How does this make you feel? Terrible, angry, full of pain and sorrow, a desire so strong that it consumes your every waking and sleeping moment prevails - you would do anything to set your child free - even give your own life.
This is what God has done, given His own life (in the person of His son Jesus Christ) to be the sacrifice for sin to set the captives free.
But the enemy is yet to be completely and utterly destroyed for ever.
Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
Until Satan is gone suffering will continue.
But the day is coming when all suffering will be forgotten.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
May we all meet on that sea of glass before the throne of God.
Your sister in Christ,
Lauri
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OntheDL
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Hi,
Just wanted to add to the good discussion...
Remember the story of Job? Devil challenged if God's fit to rule the universe. In the great controvesy, God is actually the one who's on trial. God did not create the suffering and misery. They came from the devil. God allowed them because He wants us to love Him out of our freewill. God already knows the end result, but He allows it going on, so all His intellegent creations will come the final declaration that God is love and devil and rebellion need to be eradicated. So the universe is safe eternally. Afflications shalt not rise up the second time.
About the innocent people suffering, I believe God allows it in His infinite mercy. Like the case with John the baptist, doubts had arised in his mind. Before John could stray from his faith, God in His mercy allowed him to be killed by Herod.
Just wanted to add to the good discussion...
Remember the story of Job? Devil challenged if God's fit to rule the universe. In the great controvesy, God is actually the one who's on trial. God did not create the suffering and misery. They came from the devil. God allowed them because He wants us to love Him out of our freewill. God already knows the end result, but He allows it going on, so all His intellegent creations will come the final declaration that God is love and devil and rebellion need to be eradicated. So the universe is safe eternally. Afflications shalt not rise up the second time.
About the innocent people suffering, I believe God allows it in His infinite mercy. Like the case with John the baptist, doubts had arised in his mind. Before John could stray from his faith, God in His mercy allowed him to be killed by Herod.
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All suffering is a result of sin. As soon as Adam/Eve sinned, the grounded was cursed, roses produced thorns, the ground yielded weeds, plants began to die, and animals ate one another, and then now, humans eat the animals. These are all just results of sin, as stated in Genesis 3. It says that in pain we would bare children, in toil shall we eat and by the sweat of our brow. Christ's death did not end all suffering, but only gave us the chance to live. To go to Heaven.
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To elaborate on what 3 am said. if god had destroyed lucifer and his angels immediately after their sin the whole universe would have been forced to "worship" and "love" god for eternity. gods creatures would forever love god because they had to rather than because they wanted to. this earth is the textbook, literally, for what happens when we allow sin in a society and what god is willing to do to redeem sinners. angels and all other created beings will study the 6000 years sin has devestated a society of gods formal people. i guess what im saying is that this is a result of gods allowance of free will and his desire to keep it that way. eventually down the road god knew free will would be the end of some of his creation but thats just the way it is sooooo come on jesus i cant wait anymorE! k... ill wait.
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The reason there is suffering in this world. Can someone give me a simple view point about this from the Adventist point of view. Please?
Suffering is the result of sin.....
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sentipente
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Where do you believe they think the choirmaster of heaven and one third of the angels disappeared to?
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sentipente
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You think anything that happens on earth can be worse than the introduction of dissension in heaven? There is no evidence that human life has not proceeded exactly as it was supposed to proceed but they had evidence that something changed the atmosphere in heaven. That argument does not hold water.
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I would like to think the adventist POV is the biblical POV
Romans 5:3-5 And not only [so], but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;And patience, experience; and experience, hope:And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
Romans 5:3-5 And not only [so], but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;And patience, experience; and experience, hope:And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
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