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Ellen said no playing and special clothes for the Sabbath assembly? Is that still adhered to by most SDAs today?
Thanks for the info and the links.As to some who have been recognized by at least some Adventists:
William Ellis Foy (1818–1893)
Foy, William Ellis (1818–1893)
Hazen Foss (Hosted on the White Estate site, but the link is to to Herbert Douglas' book messenger of the Lord).
Messenger of the Lord
Thank you for your comments.I asked you at that link to show that you either accept or reject Ex 20:7 "Do not take God's name in vain" as either an example of law that still exists or that is abolished. You said you could not do it without discussing a bunch of laws in scripture that are not the Ten Commandments.
As you note - the subject title of that thread is about the Ten Commandments.
Note that SDAs apply Leviticus 23:3 to Christians today.Scripture says
1. It is a day of rest - Ex 20:8-11
2. It is a day of "holy convocation" Lev 23:3
3. It is a day for not doing secular activity Is 58:13 - and is "The Holy Day of The Lord"
4. It is a day kept for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23
5. Acts 18:4 a day for evangelism and assembly - a day for gospel proclamation and bible study.
Other texts apply as well. I think you and I covered this about half a dozen times in our prior threads.
Thanks for the additional info.Related, here is a scan of a newspaper report of the trial of Israel Dammon. It is quite an interesting read, and gives a contemporary account of Ellen White and others in a meeting in 1845 (prior to the organizing of the Adventist Church, this was a gathering of Millerites). Ellen White's account of the meeting can also be examined, and differs in a number of respects from the witnesses in the court record.
But the PDF itself is rather hard to read with the small print. I include another source that puts it in plain text, but included this for documentation purposes.
https://ia802603.us.archive.org/25/...uisFarmer_piscataquisFarmer_march7_v3_n31.pdf
Plain text version. This is a site that engages in anti-Adventist polemics, but does reproduce the article in a format that is easier to read.
Newspaper Account of the Israel Dammon Trial
They also host an article with background, and a link to Ellen White's differing account of the events.
Incident in Atkinson
Here is a White Estate analysis of the events.
Ellen G. White® Estate: Another Look at Israel Damman's Trial
Here is perhaps the most unusual selection of the testimony:
LOTON LAMBERT, sworn. They were singing when I arrived--after singing they sat down on the floor--Dammon said a sister had a vision to relate-a woman on the floor then related her vision. Dammon said all other denominations were wicked--they were liars, whoremasters, murderers, &c.--he also run upon all such as were not believers with him. He ordered us off--we did not go. The woman that lay on the floor relating visions, was called by Elder Dammon and others, Imitation of Christ. Dammon called us hogs and devils, and said if he was the owner of the house he would drive us off--the one that they called Imitation of Christ, told Mrs. Woodbury and others, that they must forsake all their friends or go to hell. Imitation of Christ, as they called her, would lay on the floor a while, then rise up and call upon some one and say she had a vision to relate to them, which she would relate; there was one girl that they said must be baptized that night or she must go to hell; she wept bitterly and wanted to see her mother first; they told her she must leave her mother or go to hell--one voice said, let her go to hell. She finally concluded to be baptized. Imitation of Christ told her vision to a cousin of mine, that she must be baptized that night or go to hell-she objected, because she had once been baptized. Imitation of Christ was said to be a woman from Portland. A woman that they called Miss Baker, said the devil was here, and she wanted to see him--she selected me and said, you are the devil, and will go to hell. I told her she want [was not] my judge. Mr. [James] Ayer [Jr., owner of the house] then clinched me and tried to put me out door. I told him we had not come to disturb the meeting. The vision woman called [to] Joel Doore, said he had doubted, and would not be baptized again--she said Br. Doore don't go to hell. Doore kneeled to her feet and prayed. Miss Baker and a man went into the bedroom--subsequently heard a voice in the room hallo Oh! The door was opened--I saw into the room-she was on the bed-he was hold of her; they came out of the bedroom hugging each other, she jumping up and would throw her legs between his. Miss Baker went to Mr. Doore and said, you have refused me before, he said he had--they then kissed each other--she said "that feels good"--just before they went to the water to baptize, Miss Baker went into the bedroom with a man they called Elder White--saw him help her on to the bed--the light was brought out and door closed. I did not see either of them afterwards. Once I was in the other room talking with my cousin. Dammon and others came into the room and stopped our discourse, and called her sister and me the devil. Imitation of Christ lay on the floor during the time they went down to the water to baptize, and she continued on the floor until I left, which was between the hours of 12 and 1 o'clock at night.
Cross-examined. Answer. The visionist lay down on the floor I should think about 7 o'clock--she lay there from that time until I left. Dammon and others called her Imitation of Christ. Part of the time Dammon was down on the floor on his back--can't say certainly who first said she was Imitation of Christ, but can say Dammon repeatedly said so--Dammon said Christ revealed to her and she to others. I am not acquainted with Elder White. They called him Eld. White. They said if the Almighty had anything to say he revealed it to her, and she acted as mediator.
Dammon's closing remarks summarized:
ELDER DAMMON again rose for further defense. Court indulged him to speak. He read 126th Psalm, and the 50th Psalm. He argued that the day of grace had gone by, that the believers were reduced; but that there was too many yet, and that the end of the world would come within a week. The Court after consultation sentenced the prisoner to the House of Correction for the space of Ten Days,
Exactly! So they see the Christian Sabbath as different from a Seventh-Day Sabbath.The "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" make similar claims for how the Sabbath was observed in the OT and for how they view the "Christian Sabbath" to be kept in the NT. The same is true of a great many Sunday groups and almost all the 7th day Sabbath keeping groups.
This part is not at all specific to just SDAs.
Right, at one time most Christians did require special clothes for church attendance. I'm referring to current standards.Christians in almost all denominations at one time held to the idea of "Sunday - best" - Church clothes being worn on the weekly day of worship. Nothing at all there specific to SDAs.
Isaiah 58:13 says to refrain from all secular activity - on the Sabbath.
Most Christians today do not interpret Isaiah 58 to limit children playing outdoors. .
For example, SDAs see Leviticus 23:3 as binding on Christians today, meaning attend a holy assembly on the seventh day.
Exactly! So they see the Christian Sabbath as different from a Seventh-Day Sabbath.
Interpreting Leviticus 23:3 to require Christians today to attend an assembly on the seventh day would be an example of a standard that is much more limited, just SDAs and a few other groups, imo.
As I have said before, I believe you misunderstood much of what I wrote. And yes, I do wish to explain more, but it would involve things that you said were off topic for that thread. Anyone interested can ***click here***
Thank you for your comments.
I respectfully decline to continue discussing our interaction from a different thread in a different forum section on this thread.
Thanks for the info and the links.
Out of Foy, Foss, and White, it looks like White was the last to die in 1915.
That was well over a hundred years ago. Since the gift of prophecy is seen by SDAs as one of the identifying marks of the remnant Church, what is the general thinking among SDAs about why there haven't been any prophets since then?
For those who would like to see an example of how Adventists evaluated the claims of a would-be Adventist prophet, here is a thread on CF reacting to the dreams of Ernie Knoll, started in 2009.
Ernie Knoll not a prophet?
How about kids playing tag outdoors or video games indoors.
I believe we were talking about what I meant by "keeping the Sabbath according to SDA standards".The "Baptist Confession of Faith" and the "Westminster Confession of Faith" make similar claims for how the Sabbath was observed in the OT and for how they view the "Christian Sabbath" to be kept in the NT. The same is true of a great many Sunday groups and almost all the 7th day Sabbath keeping groups.
This part is not at all specific to just SDAs.
1. They all agree that in the Bible it is the 7th day Sabbath - each time you see that term used in scripture for a day of the week. So you are skimming over "details".
2. They all claim that the Sabbath commandment written on the heart in Jer 31:3-34 under the New Covenant - given to mankind even in the OT - given to Adam and Eve - as "edited" to point to week-day-1 at some point so it could be called by tradition "the Christian Sabbath"
Which is not a "Bible proof" against it.
And by "few" I assume you know you are talking about 100's of other groups.
Who are Matteson and Loughborough, when did they die, and what test(s) did they pass to show that they were prophets?I don't know that such is the case given that Matteson and Loughborough are in that list.
I DO know that a great many non-SDAs know enough to associate the Adventist church with claims to having an Adventist prophet.
So just stating the obvious.
A good example of someone who claimed that he himself was a false prophet and anyone with any of his books/pamphlets should throw them in the trash.
Regardless of how it sounds to me, how would it generally sound to SDAs?I imagine that must sound like a day of worship for you... well you have free will. I am not here to tell you what to think.
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