seventh day adventist question

[BobRyan]

Does SDA teach that "The Lords Day" that John references in Revelation 1:10 is the "Saturday Sabbath"

Yes - Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for mankind not mankind made for the Sabbath" -- speaking of the Genesis 1:2-2:3 events.

Yes - Mark 2:28 "The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath". Making it the Lord's Day - by NT standards.

Yes - Isaiah 58:13-14 The Sabbath is called "The Holy Day of the Lord" - and "My Holy Day".

So using a sola-scriptura model for interpreting Rev 1:10 -- letting the Bible set the context - the day can be none-other than the 7th Day Sabbath that Christ setup in Genesis 2:1-3.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[The LOUD Cry]

Does SDA teach that "The Lords Day" that John references in Revelation 1:10 is the "Saturday Sabbath" that was established in the old covenant?

Revelation 1:10

"I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet."

Scripture teaches it, therefore we, echo it:

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day...Revelation 1:10

egenomhn en pneumati en th kuriakh hmera... Revelation 1:10 [Greek Tr; Stephen's 1550 TR]

εγενομην εν πνευματι εν τη κυριακη ημερα...Revelation 1:10 [Greek]

εγενομηνG1096 V-2ADI-1S ενG1722 PREP πνευματιG4151 N-DSN ενG1722 PREP τηG3588 T-DSF κυριακηG2960 A-DSF ημεραG2250 N-DSF...Revelation 1:10 [Greek with Helps]

The Greek specifically says, "en th kuriakh hmera" ["εν τη κυριακη ημερα"] ["ενG1722 PREP τηG3588 T-DSF κυριακηG2960 A-DSF ημεραG2250 N-DSF"].

The Greek thus reads in "ownership" [ie, it [the day itself] is His, and He owns it and He is "Lord" of it], for John was "in the Spirit" "on" [that is, 'in the midst of'] "the" [definite article; specific] "Lord's" [it is His, He owns it] "day".

Let's see that:

["en"] Preposition

["th"] T-DSF - Robinson's Morphological Analysis Codes

Part of Speech: definite article
Case: Dative
Number: Singular
Gender: Feminine


["kuriakh"] A-DSF - Robinson's Morphological Analysis Codes

Part of Speech: Adjective
Case: Dative
Number: Singular
Gender: Feminine

["hmera"] N-DSF - Robinson's Morphological Analysis Codes

Part of Speech: Noun
Case: Dative
Number: Singular
Gender: Feminine

John was not referencing "the day of the Lord" [2nd Advent] [see 1 Corinthians 5:5 ["en th hmera tou kuriou ihsou"]; 1 Thessalonians 5:2 ["h hmera kuriou"]; 2 Peter 3:10 ["de h hmera kuriou"], etc] in Revelation 1:10, for that reads differently throughout the scriptures and additionally the very context [of Revelation 1] excludes it.

... ενG1722 PREP τηG3588 T-DSF ημεραG2250 N-DSF τουG3588 T-GSM κυριουG2962 N-GSM ιησουG2424 N-GSM 1 Corinthians 5:5

... οτιG3754 CONJ ηG3588 T-NSF ημεραG2250 N-NSF κυριουG2962 N-GSM ... 1 Thessalonians 5:2

2Pe 3:10 ηξειG2240 V-FAI-3S δεG1161 CONJ ηG3588 T-NSF ημεραG2250 N-NSF κυριουG2962 N-GSM ... 2 Peter 3:10


["kuriou"] N-GSM - Robinson's Morphological Analysis Codes

Part of Speech: Noun
Case: Genitive
Number: Singular
Gender: Masculine

See also the OT Hebrew and LXX [example Isaiah 13:6; etc]:

Isaiah 13:6 הילילו כי קרוב יום יהוה כשׁד משׁדי יבוא׃

Isaiah 13:6 הילילוH3213 כיH3588 קרובH7138 יוםH3117 יהוהH3068 כשׁדH7701 משׁדיH7706 יבוא׃H935

HYLYLV KY QUrVB YVM YHVH KShD MShDY YBV'a. Isaiah 13:6

ὀλολύζετε, ἐγγὺς γὰρ ἡ ἡμέρα κυρίου, καὶ συντριβὴ παρὰ τοῦ θεοῦ ἥξει. Isaiah 13:6

ολολυζετεG3649 V-PAD-2P εγγυςG1451 ADV γαρG1063 PRT ηG3588 T-NSF ημεραG2250 N-NSF κυριουG2962 N-GSM καιG2532 CONJ συντριβηN-NSF παραG3844 PREP τουG3588 T-GSM θεουG2316 N-GSM ηξειG1854 V-FAI-3S Isaiah 13:6

Again, ["kuriou"] N-GSM, not the same as ["kuriakh"] A-DSF.

Therefore, we can easily go throughout the scriptures and make the same comparisons. "the Lord's day" that we are dealing with in Revelation 1:10, is not what the rest of scripture terms "the day of the Lord". What then is it? Well, we let the scriptures define it for us, and we do not have to guess.

So, let us go to other scriptures which declare that Jesus is "Lord" "of" "the Sabbath Day", "the 7th Day":

For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day. Matthew 12:8

Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. Mark 2:28

And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. Luke 6:5

If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of theLORD, honourable; and shalt honour him... Isaiah 58:13

But the seventhday [is] the sabbath of theLORD thy God... Exodus 20:10

John was an Apostle and a Prophet, and He, loving Jesus, kept His Commandments, even upon the Isle of Patmos:

Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Revelation 1:2

Blessed [is] he that readeth, and they that hear the words ofthis prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time [is] at hand. Revelation 1:3

...and thus John writes to the 7 Churches which are in asia, and then makes the following statement:

I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 1:9

...of which Revelation 1:10 immediately follows...

...and so we see that Revelation 1:10 is an historical statement [not a reference to a future eschatalogical one], that he [John] was keeping the Sabbath and it was upon that specific day that he received the vision.

Those who forsook the Commandments of God, His Law, would not receive a vision, for the two are directly related ... "the law [is] no [more]; her prophets also find no vision from the LORD." Lamentations 2:9;p, see also Proverbs 29:18; Ezekiel 7:26, etc.


In fact we see again the connection in the Book of Daniel [which the Book of Revelation of Jesus Christ is the sister book of; the two are so inter-related that they are to be read together], we see Daniel [who being faithful] directly stating, "And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;" Daniel 9:4 [which is again directly quoting from the Ten Commandments; Exodus 20:6; John 14:15, etc] and he is the one who receives the visions.

Other related passages:

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war withthe remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12:10

And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethrenthat have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Revelation 19:10

Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit...Ephesians 6:18

Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, [let us prophesy]according to the proportion of faith; Romans 12:6

Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12

Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: 1 Corinthians 1:6

So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 1 Corinthians 1:7

Now concerning spiritual [gifts], brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 1 Corinthians 12:1

Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:4

To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 1 Corinthians 12:9

... to another prophecy... 1 Corinthians 12:10

And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets... 1 Corinthians 12:28

John, both Apostle and Prophet, truly was part of those who "keep the commandments of God" and the "faith of Jesus" and the "testimony of Jesus [Christ]".

Others attempt to rewrite the scripture and definition of "the Lord's day" with later writings, to apply 'sunday' ["first [day] of the week"], by retrograde [as there is no such evidence in Revelation 1, as admitted], as the Lord's Day. This is eisigesis, and applying a priori presuppositions, rather than letting the scripture define scripture.

 

[kyle joseph]

I have asked myself if sunday worship was ok.I've asked a few folks what their feelings were on this matter.After awhile of reading scripture I found a verse that I think helps those who are wondering what they should do concerning sunday worship,COLOSSIANS 2:16(lET NO MAN THEREFORE JUDGE YOU IN MEAT OR DRINK,OR IN RESPECT OF A HOLY DAY,OR OF THE NEW MOON,OR OF THE SABBATH DAYS: I hope this is of some help, if others know of another verse concerning this subject,please post.thank you

 

[visionary]

I have asked myself if sunday worship was ok.I've asked a few folks what their feelings were on this matter.After awhile of reading scripture I found a verse that I think helps those who are wondering what they should do concerning sunday worship,COLOSSIANS 2:16(lET NO MAN THEREFORE JUDGE YOU IN MEAT OR DRINK,OR IN RESPECT OF A HOLY DAY,OR OF THE NEW MOON,OR OF THE SABBATH DAYS: I hope this is of some help, if others know of another verse concerning this subject,please post.thank you

Lev 23 lists the Holy Days... let no one dictate on how you keep them... It is not full of traditions but should be full of relationships with Him.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Lev 23 lists the Holy Days... let no one dictate on how you keep them... It is not full of traditions but should be full of relationships with Him.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I have asked myself if sunday worship was ok.I've asked a few folks what their feelings were on this matter.After awhile of reading scripture I found a verse that I think helps those who are wondering what they should do concerning sunday worship,COLOSSIANS 2:16(lET NO MAN THEREFORE JUDGE YOU IN MEAT OR DRINK,OR IN RESPECT OF A HOLY DAY,OR OF THE NEW MOON,OR OF THE SABBATH DAYS: I hope this is of some help, if others know of another verse concerning this subject,please post.thank you

Colossians 2:16 is speaking about the handwriting of ordinances spoken of in verse 14. Moses wrote the handwriting of ordinances and in it contained all of the ordinances and ceremonies that were integral to the ceremonial system which contained shadows of Christ. There were holy days in that system all listen in Leviticus 23 and there were yearly Sabbaths which could fall on any day of the week. The weekly Sabbath is not being spoken of here because it was not apart of the handwriting of ordinances but apart of the 10 commandments. The Sabbath was made and existed without there being any ceremonial system of levitical priesthood. If man had not sinned, the Sabbath would still be existing and there would have been no shadows of Christ obviously. So the 7th day Sabbath cannot be referenced here.

 

[visionary]

Colossians 2:16 is speaking about the handwriting of ordinances spoken of in verse 14. Moses wrote the handwriting of ordinances and in it contained all of the ordinances and ceremonies that were integral to the ceremonial system which contained shadows of Christ. There were holy days in that system all listen in Leviticus 23 and there were yearly Sabbaths which could fall on any day of the week. The weekly Sabbath is not being spoken of here because it was not a part of the handwriting of ordinances but a part of the 10 commandments. The Sabbath was made and existed without there being any ceremonial system of levitical priesthood. If man had not sinned, the Sabbath would still be existing and there would have been no shadows of Christ obviously. So the 7th day Sabbath cannot be referenced here.

I think this is what you meant.

 

[Epoisses]

Colossians 2:16 is speaking about the handwriting of ordinances spoken of in verse 14. Moses wrote the handwriting of ordinances and in it contained all of the ordinances and ceremonies that were integral to the ceremonial system which contained shadows of Christ. There were holy days in that system all listen in Leviticus 23 and there were yearly Sabbaths which could fall on any day of the week. The weekly Sabbath is not being spoken of here because it was not apart of the handwriting of ordinances but apart of the 10 commandments. The Sabbath was made and existed without there being any ceremonial system of levitical priesthood. If man had not sinned, the Sabbath would still be existing and there would have been no shadows of Christ obviously. So the 7th day Sabbath cannot be referenced here.

So are Christians who are under grace and believe in the gospel and have God’s agape love required to keep the 10 commandments?

I personally feel that the Lord’s day being referenced is the 7th day sabbath but I don’t use the 10 commandment argument that seventh-day adventists use. That always leads into legalism and that is definitely wrong.

The commandments that Jesus gave were to have faith in him for salvation and to love God and our neighbor as ourselves. The whole focus of the new testament is on God’s love not the ten commandments.

 

[GarySneakers]

There are 2 forces. One demands the seventh (last day) One demands the first day.
You get to pick which day. The 10 commandments state the first day. Obey it or not.
If the lord's ( they don't say which named lord ) day is chosen and it is really the masked day for the Roman god (Sun-day). Then someone is in big trouble.

Remember there are 2 claiming to be God. Choose wisely.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

So are Christians who are under grace and believe in the gospel and have God’s agape love required to keep the 10 commandments?

I personally feel that the Lord’s day being referenced is the 7th day sabbath but I don’t use the 10 commandment argument that seventh-day adventists use. That always leads into legalism and that is definitely wrong.

The commandments that Jesus gave were to have faith in him for salvation and to love God and our neighbor as ourselves. The whole focus of the new testament is on God’s love not the ten commandments.

How was Moses saved? Was he saved by grace or through his own works?

 

[bbbbbbb]

How was Moses saved? Was he saved by grace or through his own works?

What does the Bible say about Moses' salvation?