Serving God and Serving Mammon

[Strivax]

Solomon lived in different days, among circumstances that vary from those that currently pertain. Nevertheless, had Solomon decided to keep his wealth while his people starved, I think God would have withdrawn His favour in very short order. Nevertheless, it is not Solomon, but Jesus, we need look to for example. And Jesus had a very dusty attitude towards excessive wealth, and His lifestyle was far from profligate, and most of His mission spent amongst the poor.

Cheers, Strivax.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Solomon lived in different days, among circumstances that vary from those that currently pertain.

JMO, but I think that's irrelevant.

Nevertheless, had Solomon decided to keep his wealth while his people starved, I think God would have withdrawn His favour in very short order.

What about others out if his kingdom, the world you mention? He didn't give it all up to help them.

Nevertheless, it is not Solomon, but Jesus, we need look to for example.

I'm looking to God's favor towards Solomon and others like him as example.

And Jesus had a very dusty attitude towards excessive wealth, and His lifestyle was far from profligate, and most of His mission spent amongst the poor.

Maybe, maybe not...convince me if you like.

I don't have wealth, I'm on disability but give a share I decide is best. I have enough and am happy with what I have, but just saying, this may not always be as cut and dry as it might seem to you.

 

[Strivax]

Solomon lived in different days, among circumstances that vary from those that currently pertain.

JMO, but I think that's irrelevant.

Not so; in particular Solomon did not have the example and teachings of Jesus to guide him, or the vast academic infrastructure of ethics subsequent prayer, contemplation, meditation and research have built on His life that we benefit from today.

What about others out if his kingdom, the world you mention? He didn't give it all up to help them.

The Jews of the time were far more racist than we would generally consider acceptable in this age. But that is social progress for you: God teaches us patiently, gradually, bit by bit, as and when we are capable of learning His lessons, individually and communally.

I'm looking to God's favor towards Solomon and others like him as example.

And I'm gently suggesting that such are not the best examples to take.

Maybe, maybe not...convince me if you like.

No, I won't. I haven't the inclination to 'convince a man against his will, that he might hold the same opinion, still'.

Please understand, I am not trying to get at you, Kenny'sID, with what I am going to say next. In particular, you seem to have a well balanced attitude to wealth, and in general, I try not to attack individuals here, only the arguments they put if I perceive some flaw in them.

But, I have found, over many discussions, here and elsewhere on other forums, the people for whom this money thing is not as simple as I have tried to lay out in this thread tend to be the people who have some issue to do with an ambition to live out the 'American Dream', (should that be 'the capitalist dream'?); to become so wealthy they need no longer work. The issue really is this simple, this cut and dried, and, for Christians, it really is about who you serve, God or Mammon.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Kenny'sID]

But, I have found, over many discussions, here and elsewhere on other forums, the people for whom this money thing is not as simple as I have tried to lay out in this thread tend to be the people who have some issue to do with an ambition to live out the 'American Dream',

Exactly the reason I spoke up and then told you my situation. One would think as you do, you aren't the first.. and I was trying to convey, it's not necessarily that way, and that coming from someone who isn't all that into capitalism at the moment anyway.

God has blessed many into riches. I don't have the ambition right now but I'd love to be rich, have a bunch of people working for me, people I could treat fairly and then some, as in pay the janitor more than the vice president because he works harder...fun things like that. Make lots of money honestly and it can be done when one works for themselves and has full control. It's actually a very fun game to compete in that area...pit your skills/intelligence against others doing the same thing. Then give back to God and not feel the least bit guilty about buying a nice boat or car, or not....Stay busy, you know, idle hands and all.

And when I said convince me, I was mainly looking for proof of what you stand behind, but for no other reason but to help make my point.

Just don't love money or our things more than God...it can be done, but one must be careful.

 

[Strivax]

...but I'd love to be rich, have a bunch of people working for me, people I could treat fairly and then some, as in pay the janitor more than the vice president because he works harder...fun things like that.

Yes, I have similar sorts of fantasies. More realistically, an ethical pay policy (no one gets to earn more than seven times as much as the lowest paid in the organisation, who should be it's leader) would be a huge economic advance, were it implemented widely.

Make lots of money honestly and it can be done when one works for themselves and has full control.

I'm all for earning money honestly. But I find the only way my conscience can be satisfied is to work for peanuts, for my own not-for-profit social enterprise, that hopefully will contribute, in due course, to the common good.

Just don't love money or our things more than God...it can be done, but one must be careful.

Indeed one must.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Dave-W]

I'm all for earning money honestly. But I find the only way my conscience can be satisfied is to work for peanuts,

Are you sure your "conscience" is ok?

 

[Strivax]

Are you sure your "conscience" is ok?

Ha ha! But, I think, true freedom is the freedom to pursue one's conscience. As moral compasses go, and with all due humility, one's conscience is as good as any gets.

Cheers, Strivax.

 

[Dave-W]

As moral compasses go, and with all due humility, one's conscience is as good as any gets.

But scripture teaches that one's conscience can become corrupted:

1 Corinthians 8:7 However not all men have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

1 Timothy 4:2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

Titus 1:15 To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their mind and their conscience are defiled.

1 Jn 3.19 We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him
20 in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things.

Now I do not know you to know if any of those verses apply or not. I am only saying that one's conscience can become corrupt by living in this fallen world.

 

[Strivax]

But, strangely enough, maybe, I would rather trust to manifold individual consciences (each sinning mistake being compensated by another's virtue) than to singular monolithic religion, which we know to be plagued by power struggles, economic concerns and plays for social supremacy. Consciences, to me, are God's whispers in our inner ears. They are not flawed; only the way we deal with them might be.

But that, of course, is the protestant I am.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Moxie123]

Well, it is the 'powers that be', rotten or otherwise, who make the laws and determine tax levels and directions of public expenditure. It seems sensible, since we elect them for precisely such purposes, to look to them to find solutions to the world's hunger problems. But they will only do this if their electorates demand it of them.

Cheers, Strivax.

That's what the church is for. You know, the book of Acts and such. Separation of church and State.

 

[MrSpikey]

God has given the wealthy their wealth; who has any right to complain?

Wasn't there also some stuff about rich men, camels and eyes of needles? That would surely imply an upper limit on wealth, wouldn't it?