Serious question as it relates to religion

[jathtech]

A debate has arisen at work concerning a policy that prevents us from leaving the property of our employer to act in the capacity of a security guard.

The policy seems to make sense to me, right up until the statement that there is absolutely no extenuating circumstances.

We are not allowed to leave property for any reason whatsoever, or else face being fired.

Now this concerns me particularly because our property is adjacent to a relatively busy street, and from time to time (twice in the past week) there are major auto accidents on that street. I happened to see a puff of dirt fly up from the ground while I was on patrol on our property during one accident, and went to investigate.

Now I have been informed that if we were to leave property to provide first aid to an injured person, no matter how bad that person might be, prior to emergency medical personnel's arrival, we will be summarily fired.

Now this goes against every fiber of my being and every belief I learned growing up. I will help regardless of the consequences on my material possessions, including money, which is all a job is good for to many people. But is it right that they put this restriction on us? is it even legal?

Isn't it a sin to not help someone when the situation arises, and you are in a position to help? That would make this rule a violation of my religion correct?

tell me what you think.

Just to be clear, I'm not talking about interfering after emergency personnel arrive, only attempting to keep someone alive until they do.

When seconds count, police are only minutes away.... etc.

edit: one more question... even if the rule was legal, would it be immoral for me to follow it?

 

[wayseer]

I can see a number of issues.

First, you are employed for a rather responsible job. If you elect to leave your post then you are exposing that which you should be protecting open to attack in some form.

Second, creating a little disturbance may well be designed to get you to leave your post.

Third, you no doubt have a mobile phone and are in contact with any number of people so I am wondering why use what has been provided?

Fourth, there an imperative that when endeavouring to rescue or assist someone that you do not place you own safety in possible danger.

Fifth, I am left wondering how many accident do 'happen' or was this just a bad week.

Sixth, I support your boss. If you don't think your job is that important it might best to get another job.

 

[Harry3142]

jathtech-

I am supposing that when you are working you are also wearing a uniform that identifies which company you are working for. This means that even though you see yourself as an individual seeking to help another, whatever you do can be seen as being performed by the company you are working for. That could make them liable for whatever happens after you have rendered first aid, irregardless of whether you yourself did something wrong or not. People have collected large settlements after blatantly disobeying the person who gave them first aid, and then suing that person.

There have been many lawsuits brought by people who were involved in accidents. Enough of these suits have been filed against the people who gave them first aid, and those people's employers, that people and companies are now 'gunshy' about giving assistance. Many states have even passed 'Good Samaritan Laws' in order to cut down on the lawsuits filed by those who, after being helped, returned the kindness by attacking the person who helped them in order to obtain a large amount of money.

So long as you are helping someone who is on the property that you have been assigned to, your company is protected by the insurance company that furnishes its liability coverage. But if you step off that property, you and the company you work for are no longer protected by most insurance companies. So if the person you aid decides to reward you by promptly filing suit against you and your employer, neither you nor your employer have any protection against that lawsuit.

 

[jathtech]

so in other words.... God says that you should not help people because you might be liable in a court of law if one of them decides to sue you and your company. Ok, that makes sense... God loves my money and wants me to pay tithing more than he wants me to save someone's life.. I get it.

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[jathtech]

ok, so here's the deal, I don't care what anyone else has to say about this subject unless they are a practicing pastor, bishop, or some other form of church leader who has done many years of spiritual teaching.

 

[wayseer]

so in other words.... God says that you should not help people because you might be liable in a court of law if one of them decides to sue you and your company. Ok, that makes sense... God loves my money and wants me to pay tithing more than he wants me to save someone's life.. I get it.

No one said, including Jesus, that it is a cake walk following God. You are going to be confronting these situations as long as you live - and you are going to have to make a call - and it is you're call.

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[jathtech]

First, you are employed for a rather responsible job. If you elect to leave your post then you are exposing that which you should be protecting open to attack in some form.

If the accident was in the same spot 20 feet north, it would be on our property and I'd be tied up for an hour or more. Off property, I'm only tied up long enough for the paramedics to arrive. Plus there's other guards on duty all patrolling at the same time, so my post wouldn't be unattended.

Second, creating a little disturbance may well be designed to get you to leave your post.

If someone orchestrated a car accident to get me away from the mall long enough to commit a crime, they'd be wasting their time. It's observe and report. I'm not a cop. There's a hundred ways for them to do that on property. Them luring me off isn't going to gain them any more access to the property than they would have had anyway.

Third, you no doubt have a mobile phone and are in contact with any number of people so I am wondering why use what has been provided?

I'm not talking about doing the paramedic's or police's jobs, I'm talking about giving CPR, or putting pressure on a bleeding wound until they arrive. They are about to die if I don't. My job says no. That's wrong to me.

Fourth, there an imperative that when endeavouring to rescue or assist someone that you do not place you own safety in possible danger.

I agree, but in a car accident, there are generally people directing traffic, or the traffic is backed up. Cars don't explode like they do in the movies. I'm not going to put myself in harms way if I can help it... But if it saves someone's life, I might.

Fifth, I am left wondering how many accident do 'happen' or was this just a bad week.

There are a MINIMUM of 1 accident per week by our mall. We don't respond to 90% of them, but there is that chance. I saw a man get hit and killed by a car back in October, and I tried to help him, but it was too late. That was the 4th major car accident I've helped at, so it's not that uncommon. A car accident is the most likely emergency that most people will ever have the opportunity to help out with.

Sixth, I support your boss. If you don't think your job is that important it might best to get another job.

I don't think any job, car, house, plane, boat, monetary item, plant, mineral, or animal is as important as a PERSON'S LIFE. I'd bull dose my own house to rescue someone underneath it. I learned that from a very good religious man, my uncle. It's something I live by. < staff edit >

 

[wayseer]

I don't think any job, car, house, plane, boat, monetary item, plant, mineral, or animal is as important as a PERSON'S LIFE. I'd bull dose my own house to rescue someone underneath it. I learned that from a very good religious man, my uncle. It's something I live by. < staff edit > .

Then ditch your job and join the paramedics.

 

[LOCO]

I will always help someone in distress, in an accident or needing assistance. My employer prides themselves on the companies and its employees reputation of going above and beyond what is expected.

If you are a security guard and it is happening right outside your building and you put your hands up and say 'sorry, not allowed outside the doors', what kind of a human being are you. I would rather be a decent human being and unemployed than work for a company that places unreasonable demands on its employees.

 

[LOCO]

ok, so here's the deal, I don't care what anyone else has to say about this subject unless they are a practicing pastor, bishop, or some other form of church leader who has done many years of spiritual teaching.

I am a Catechist with one year of teaching. Does that count? I have already posted my suggestion earlier.

What does your church say about it?

When I have questions I go to my Priest first or other Catholics.

 

[Blessedj01]

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< staff edit > in my country at least, it would be almost/or definitely considered illegal to NOT help someone who's in severe trouble. if someone needs first aid and/or is dying, you can't just stand there.

< staff edit > i think your employer is right in one sense but there must be more to this situation. you should check your rights at the citizens advise bureau.

 

[Blessedj01]

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well this isn't my certain answer, but i think you have to do what your employer says. you are their "slave." you should be honoring what they tell you to do. you've got a contract with them. keep your phone on standby if you see anything happen and have faith the meds will arrive or God will use someone else to administer first aid.

 

[jathtech]

wayseer, by your logic, if I was bothered by not being allowed to have a camp fire out in the woods while I'm camping, I should become a fighter pilot < staff edit >.

LOCO, I'm glad someone gets it.

I don't see why everyone holds their jobs in such high reguard. If I let someone die because of my job, and I wound up not working for them at any time down the road at all, I'd feel really guilty.

you can go find another job. You can't tell me that whatever wages you would have earned in the mean time are worth more than the person's life.

As for being someone's slave, I am no one's slave. I'm providing my customer (employer) a service, and when my customer requires that I allow someone to die for any reason when I could have done something, my customer is wrong.

 

[hwyangel]

1 Timothy 6:17-19 “Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.”

Ezekiel 16:49 “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.”

Proverbs 11:4 “Wealth is worthless in the day of wrath, but righteousness delivers from death.”
2 Corinthians 8:9 “For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.”

Matthew 6:24 “No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”

Psalm 82:3 “Defend the poor and fatherless; Do justice to the afflicted and needy.”

Psalm 9:9 “The LORD is a refuge for the oppressed, a stronghold in times of trouble.”


Psalm 12:5 ” Because of the oppression of the weak and the groaning of the needy, I will now arise, says the LORD, I will protect them from those who malign them. ”

Psalm 72:12-13 “For he will deliver the needy who cry out, the afflicted who have no one to help. He will take pity on the weak and the needy and save the needy from death.”

Psalm 82:3-4 “Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless; maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed. Rescue the weak and needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”

Proverbs 14:21 “He who despises his neighbor sins, but blessed is he who is kind to the needy.”

Ecclesiastes 5:8 “If you see the poor oppressed in a district, and justice and rights denied, do not be surprised at such things; for one official is eyed by a higher one, and over them both are others higher still.”


Isaiah 25:4 “You have been a refuge for the poor, a refuge for the needy in his distress, a shelter from the storm and a shade from the heat. For the breath of the ruthless is like a storm driving against a wall.”

Jeremiah 22:16 “‘He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?” declares the LORD.”

James 1:27 “Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.”

Matthew 25:35 “For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in.”

Luke 14:13 “…When you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind.”

I could keep going but I need to get back to work. So in conclusion, just trust God.

 

[Yarddog]

Isn't it a sin to not help someone when the situation arises, and you are in a position to help? That would make this rule a violation of my religion correct?

tell me what you think.

First of all, their policy may go against State Law, "if" your state has laws about "failure to stop and render aid".

Second, sometimes it is worth being fired in order to fulfill your spiritual and civic duty.

edit: one more question... even if the rule was legal, would it be immoral for me to follow it?

Every situation is different and you must rely on your instincts as to how you must respond. We do not know exactly what your job entails, so it would be impossible for us to judge how you should respond.

There are great rewards for saving a life or in helping those in need.

 

[hwyangel]

As a truck driver Im required to maintain my speed and my lane, no exceptions, federal law. Last year I was driving down a two lane road and a little girl came hopping into the road from behind a car where her parents were changing a flat tire. I removed the plane mirror from an oncoming truck, and part of the fender. I was fired but the girl is alive.

 

[hwyangel]

If you keep your job do it for God, if you lose your job do it for God. He is not a means to an end, he is beginning and the end. He is not an assistant to our lives, he is the way, the truth and the life. The world will give us many "choices but just settle, don't quit and don't compromise.

 

[jathtech]

ok, now I feel good about these answers. I appreciate it very much.

Also, everything has been resolved to my satisfaction at work. I was informed that I would not be fired for doing the right thing. He said it would be ridiculous to do that. As added protection, I plan on removing my uniform prior to leaving property if the even should ever arise, simply to protect my employer. I may get written up, but I won't get fired.

 

[hwyangel]

I love happy endings. That's great that things worked out.

 

[Blessedj01]

As for being someone's slave, I am no one's slave. I'm providing my customer (employer) a service, and when my customer requires that I allow someone to die for any reason when I could have done something, my customer is wrong.

Being an employee is basically the same thing as being a slave. We just don't have any kind of lifetime obligation to our "masters" these days. We have a clearly laid out contract that only concerns certain things.

Yeah you can't let someone die but would you really be doing that in most circumstances? I mean, there are emergency personal and...other people in the world.

I mean you did give us a hypothetical situation after all. Glad your boss agreed that you are allowed to leave in some circumstances. As long as you really think you're the only thing between someone and death, I think it's your duty to leave your post for that reason. Just don't get carried away aye bro?