• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Serious Procedure Question

Rotator

Shhhhhh.....
Dec 30, 2006
667
64
✟1,139.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I know what happens if a sitting president is incapacitated, but now that McCain has conceded, and the electoral college hasn't met yet, what would happen if Obama got hit by a truck tomorrow?

Anyone who wants to twist this perversely can just bite me. It's a serious question. Had McCain won, I'd have asked the same question.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MsAnne

ArnautDaniel

Veteran
Aug 28, 2006
5,295
328
The Village
✟29,653.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Remember, in an American presidential election nobody actually votes for the candidates.

A person votes for the Electors who will meet and vote for the candidate.

No matter what happens to Obama now the Electors are chosen.

They can meet and vote for whoever they want to.

Since they Democrat Electors obviously dominate, they'd vote for a different Democrat.

Heck if Obama were dead they could vote for Hillary Clinton if they wanted to...

...just a tidbit for the Clinton conspiracy types out there (you all know who I'm talking about).
 
Upvote 0

ArnautDaniel

Veteran
Aug 28, 2006
5,295
328
The Village
✟29,653.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Yeah thats one thing I never understood entirely. Is there any "law" or rule that states how the electors vote or can they vote for whoever they want? Like for an example we wake up tomorrow and all of a sudden Bill Gates is president?

They can vote for anyone they want to.

Originally it wasn't even intended that people would vote for Electors.

State legislatures were supposed to appoint a group of Electors and send them off to Washington to meet. The Electors were then going to decide among themselves who the President was.

States decided to choose Electors based on popular ballot and so forth on their own.
 
Upvote 0

Jadis40

Senior Member
Sep 19, 2004
963
192
51
Indiana, USA
✟54,645.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Republican
The US Constitution has a certain list that is followed determining the order of succession. If, hypothetically, Obama was hit by a truck tomorrow, then Biden would become President on January 20th, since he's the vice-president elect. In turn, if something would happen to Biden, then the Speaker of the House would be the next in line to become President.
 
Upvote 0

ArnautDaniel

Veteran
Aug 28, 2006
5,295
328
The Village
✟29,653.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The US Constitution has a certain list that is followed determining the order of succession. If, hypothetically, Obama was hit by a truck tomorrow, then Biden would become President on January 20th, since he's the vice-president elect. In turn, if something would happen to Biden, then the Speaker of the House would be the next in line to become President.

That only kicks in after the people are sworn in to those offices.

Until January Obama isn't President nor is Biden Vice President.

Strictly speaking Obama isn't even President-Elect until after the Electoral College meets.
 
Upvote 0
N

Nathan45

Guest
I know what happens if a sitting president is incapacitated, but now that McCain has conceded, and the electoral college hasn't met yet, what would happen if Obama got hit by a truck tomorrow?
I hope not... :o

Anyone who wants to twist this perversely can just bite me. It's a serious question. Had McCain won, I'd have asked the same question.

Hillary clinton or Joe Biden would be president.

It works like this:

We don't *technically* vote for a president, we actually vote for the electoral college, which are a bunch of partisans from either party ( in this case, the democrats, since they won the election),

The electoral college gets together and elect the president.

So these electors all agreed beforehand to vote for Obama, that's why they're on the ballot under the name "Obama".

If something happened to Obama, they'd have to pick a different president. Keep in mind, these are democratic partisans. So there's no chance of them electing a republican, they'd most likely pick Biden although you couldn't rule out hillary.
 
Upvote 0

Ryal Kane

Senior Veteran
Apr 21, 2004
3,792
461
45
Hamilton
✟21,220.00
Faith
Atheist
They can vote for anyone they want to.

Originally it wasn't even intended that people would vote for Electors.

State legislatures were supposed to appoint a group of Electors and send them off to Washington to meet. The Electors were then going to decide among themselves who the President was.

States decided to choose Electors based on popular ballot and so forth on their own.

Er...doesn't that sound like a terrible system? It's open to awful, perfectly legal abuse.
 
Upvote 0

ArnautDaniel

Veteran
Aug 28, 2006
5,295
328
The Village
✟29,653.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Er...doesn't that sound like a terrible system? It's open to awful, perfectly legal abuse.

Strangely enough, apart from the Florida legislature threatening back in 2000 to appoint a Electors regardless of what the popular vote in Florida was (they didn't in the end) it hasn't been abused.

The bigger problem is the way it allows a candidate that doesn't get a plurality of the popular vote to win anyway.
 
Upvote 0

romanov

Senior Veteran
Jul 6, 2006
3,409
188
61
Alaska
✟26,926.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
I know what happens if a sitting president is incapacitated, but now that McCain has conceded, and the electoral college hasn't met yet, what would happen if Obama got hit by a truck tomorrow?

Anyone who wants to twist this perversely can just bite me. It's a serious question. Had McCain won, I'd have asked the same question.

Biden becomes president.
 
Upvote 0
N

Nathan45

Guest
Er...doesn't that sound like a terrible system? It's open to awful, perfectly legal abuse.

it's a holdover from the days when people were supposed to vote for "electors" to elect the president, and not directly elect the president. But as far as i know, no one has ever voted in an elector without knowing beforehand who he would elect.

And yeah, the system is odd... in practice the electors almost never vote for the wrong person, as they're appointed by the political party. Once every few elections, one elector will vote for the wrong person but it's never enough to change the vote...

In my opinion, if that ever happened the supreme court would probably rule that they are obligated by law to vote for the correct person--The electoral college is for the most part a formality and from a realpolitik perspective i don't think they could get away with voting for the wrong guy. Whoever they voted for would have no mandate whatsoever... It's never been tried but unless Obama were to eat a live baby on TV between now and when the electors vote, I don't think you could change the election by having a bunch of electors vote for the wrong person.
 
Upvote 0

Billnew

Legend
Apr 23, 2004
21,246
1,234
59
Ohio
Visit site
✟42,863.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
CA-Conservatives
I would think the Electorals would have a limit on who they could vote for.
IMO Biden would be the choice, simple chain of comand. But with the perosn they
have said they would vote for gone, they could actually be free agents.

Couldn't they elect someone that didn't even run?
COuldn't they elect Michael Moore? or Soros?
 
  • Like
Reactions: MsAnne
Upvote 0

Bootstrap

Regular Member
Jun 17, 2008
2,838
205
Durham, NC
✟26,739.00
Faith
Anabaptist
Marital Status
In Relationship
I would think the Electorals would have a limit on who they could vote for.
IMO Biden would be the choice, simple chain of comand. But with the perosn they
have said they would vote for gone, they could actually be free agents.

Couldn't they elect someone that didn't even run?
COuldn't they elect Michael Moore? or Soros?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_College_(United_States)

And btw, we've twice had the losing candidate die, and the electors chose someone else.

Jonathan

Death or unsuitability of a candidate

The U.S. constitution grants each state the right to appoint electors in a manner chosen by that state. While it is common to think of the electoral votes impersonally, as mere numbers, the college is in fact made up of real people (usually party regulars of the party whose candidate wins each state) with the capacity to adapt to unusual situations. That capacity might be particularly important if, for example, a candidate were to die or become in some other way unsuitable to serve as President or Vice President. Advocates of the current system argue that these electors could then choose a suitable replacement (who would most likely come from the same party of the candidate who won the election) more competently than could the general voting public. Furthermore, the time period during which such a death or the onset of such an unsuitability might call for such an adaptation extends, under the Electoral College system, from before Election Day (many states cannot change ballots at a late stage) until the day the electors vote (the first Monday after the second Wednesday of December). Thus, until the electors cast their votes, it is not a federal issue, per se, but a state's rights issue and state laws (should) regulate the situation. In Virginia, for instance, the law clearly states that the electors must vote for the name of the candidate who they represent on the ballot and therefore these electors are not able to adapt to unusual situations.


In the election of 1872, Democratic candidate Horace Greeley did in fact die before the meeting of the Electoral College, resulting in Democratic disarray; the electors who were to have voted for Greeley split their votes across several candidates, including three votes cast for the deceased Greeley. However, President Ulysses S. Grant, the Republican incumbent, had already won an absolute majority of electors. Because it was the death of a losing candidate, there was no pressure to agree on a replacement candidate. There has never been a case of a candidate of the winning party dying.


In the election of 1912, after the Republicans had renominated President Taft and Vice President Sherman, Sherman died shortly before the election, too late to change the names on the ballot, thus causing Sherman to be listed posthumously. That ticket finished third behind the Democrats (Woodrow Wilson) and the Progressives (Theodore Roosevelt), and the 8 electoral votes that Sherman would have received were cast for Nicholas M. Butler.
 
Upvote 0

MsAnne

:)
Nov 11, 2002
3,032
319
Visit site
✟27,333.00
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Private
I know what happens if a sitting president is incapacitated, but now that McCain has conceded, and the electoral college hasn't met yet, what would happen if Obama got hit by a truck tomorrow?..
What a great question. I have wondered what the protocol is if the president-elect doesn't make it to inauguration day, but to wonder what happens if the electoral college hasn't even had a chance to place their vote. I have to look into this now!

COuldn't they elect Michael Moore?...
OK, some things just shouldn't even be joked about!! :nono:
 
Upvote 0

Sycophant

My milkshake brings all the boys to the yard
Mar 11, 2004
4,022
272
45
Auckland
✟28,070.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Yeah thats one thing I never understood entirely. Is there any "law" or rule that states how the electors vote or can they vote for whoever they want? Like for an example we wake up tomorrow and all of a sudden Bill Gates is president?

I seem to recall from the last election where if was very close, that there was mild speculation that the actual election could turn out differently if the Electors voted differently to the way they had pledged.

It has certainly happened that EC Electors cast a vote differently to the way they are expected to. Here is what Wikipedia says about Faithless Electors - there have been 158 instances of electors casting ballots other than they had pledged to.

24 states have laws to punish faithless electors.

Interestingly, in 1872 Greeley died before the Electoral college met, and 63 of his 66 electors cast their votes for other candidates.
 
Upvote 0

ArnautDaniel

Veteran
Aug 28, 2006
5,295
328
The Village
✟29,653.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
People need to recall that the US Constitution was written to minimize popular input at the federal level.

The idea was people would vote for a Representative, states would appoint Senators, and states would appoint Electors who would vote for the President.

Except for the House of Representatives it was about states being represented in a federal system.

On top of that recall that the people who could vote for the Representative were to be a small part of the population themselves (white males with significant property basically).

The US Constitution is truly an archaic document.
 
Upvote 0