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serial killers can go to heaven?

vedickings

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Ok, I was talking to my freind today, and he said that even a serial killer will go to havean if he/she accept Jeusu into there heart, who is on death row, just before the lethal injectionon.

I do not believe this idea. I think it take far more work then just a simple acceptances of Christ. I mean come on we are talking about killers who killed 100's of people! Even killing one person out of hate, takes far more work, then I believe in Christ and then off to the
[size=-1]execution to heaven.

And then all the good unbeliever are going to hell!

I'm sorry Christians but this belief is wrong.
[/size]
 

I_are_sceptical

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vedickings said:
I'm sorry Christians but this belief is wrong.
Christianity is not the only religion that teaches this. From the Scriptures of the Baha'i Faith:

"How often hath a sinner attained, at the hour of death, to the essence of faith, and, quaffing the immortal draught, hath taken his flight unto the Concourse on high! And how often hath a devout believer, at the hour of his soul's ascension, been so changed as to fall into the nethermost fire!"
(Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 266)

Proud Hindu said:
I cannot even imagine how people can just blindly accept such a ridiculous notion.
If I thought it was ridiculous, instead of guidance from God, I would agree with you.
 
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InnerPhyre

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Such a person would only achieve salvation if his repentence was true and sincere and not just afraid of hell and being sorry that he got caught. If at the time of his death, he deeply regretted the harm that he caused, admitted his guilt, and asked God for mercy, mercy would likely be his, as it was for the thief who was crucified beside Jesus and repented. God knows our hearts though, and simply being afraid of going to hell and repenting to go to heaven wouldn't be enough to save such a man. God is not going to be fooled by someone who leads a life of sin, sees his death is imminent and suddenly says "uh oh...better repent....sorry God." As Jesus said, not all those who cry "Lord Lord" will be saved.
 
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ReBjorn

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The Bible says that God made Jesus become sin for us. Not that Jesus ever did anything wrong - my grandfather once told me that he did not know anyone who has fully understood the depths of this. But the only one who can carry the weight of the sin of the world, was made sin for us. The Bible tells us that darkness covered all of the earth for three hours, while He was on the cross. God could not watch! I have read somewhere that these three hours of darkness seems to be confirmed in at least one independent writing from that time.

Jesus can save anyone - he does not do the job half-way. He's God, think about that. He's able to say: "Exist!" - and earth must come into existence by the commandment of His voice! But He saw us, and He loves us, and He knew He had to do something about the situation. He knows everyone, though not everyone knows Him. He planned you an eternity ago. You are the daughter or son He always wanted! He is actually able to love and know everyone like we were His favourite, each and every one of us - we can not fathom His ways -
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way and the man of vanity his thoughts, and let him return to Jehovah, and He will have mercy on him; and to our God, for He will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:8 For My thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways My ways, says Jehovah.
Isa 55:9 For as the heavens are high from the earth, so My ways are high from your ways, and My thoughts from your thoughts.
- but be sure of this: He's really, really been looking forward to your birth - He's been saying to the angels in Heaven that it's not going to be a long time now before you are born, and that He is counting the days, looking forward to that day with joy! Every hair on your head is counted at all times! He L O V E S you. And real love does not force anyone to love back, so we have been given a choice; to accept His Love, one that lasts forever and ever, or to say that you don't need Him. He will let you do as you wish.

He's given us the signs, He's given us the Word, He's shown us the way, He's kept His promises. We're just waiting for Him to come back - but first, the Gospel must be preached to all nations - but we are recognizing many, many other things in our world today, which the Lord prophecied about - we know that 'the season' is here - The Bible teaches us about many things to look for regarding this 'season' - that's a subject of its own - but He won't come until the Gospel has reached all tribes, nations and tongues. He will return!

Jesus said:
Greater love than this has no one, that anyone should lay down his soul for his friends.
Have you ever heard the expression "Strong enough to be weak?"
Well. He knew who He was, and all I can say, is:
You came from Heaven to earth
to show the way
from the earth to the cross
from the cross to the grave
from the grave to the sky
Lord, I lift your name on high!

Luk 23:39 And one of the hanged criminals blasphemed Him, saying, If you are Christ, save Yourself and us.
Luk 23:40 But answering, the other rebuked him, saying, Do you not fear God, since you are in the same condemnation.
Luk 23:41 And we indeed justly so, for we receive the due reward of our deeds, but this Man has done nothing amiss.
Luk 23:42 And he said to Jesus, Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom.
Luk 23:43 And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, Today you shall be with Me in Paradise.
Luk 23:44 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
Luk 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was torn in the middle.

By the way, I've heard that the word 'sin' means 'missing the target' in the original scriptures. I know I've missed the target many a time.. in the old testament, the israelites had missed the target in the desert. God sent serpents to bite them - but He also told Moses to make a copper snake, and to put it on a stake - and to stand in front of the israelites, so that everyone who looked up to the copper snake could be healed. God solved the situation in that way - He just wanted them to believe - and presented a very overcomeable solution to the israelites. Everyone who looked up to the copper snake, was healed. Easy and overcomeable, and God wanted them to do this as an act of faith in Him - it was not supposed to be hard. Many old testament happenings are actually prophetic and points towards the new pact. Here's the fulfillment of that specific event in the new testament:
Joh 3:14 But even as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
Joh 3:15 so that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him.
Joh 3:18 He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God.
 
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bouncer

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vedickings said:
Ok, I was talking to my freind today, and he said that even a serial killer will go to havean if he/she accept Jeusu into there heart, who is on death row, just before the lethal injectionon.

I do not believe this idea. I think it take far more work then just a simple acceptances of Christ. I mean come on we are talking about killers who killed 100's of people! Even killing one person out of hate, takes far more work, then I believe in Christ and then off to the
[size=-1]execution to heaven.

And then all the good unbeliever are going to hell!

I'm sorry Christians but this belief is wrong.
[/size]

It's not quite as simple as that. If someone decides to accept Jesus truly, then it implies a 100% repentance. In such a case he/she is definitely forgiven, yes even a serial killer. Of course a simple verbal acceptance with no true repentance in the heart carries no weightage.

And God knows best. :)
 
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peaceful soul

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originally posted by vedickings

Ok, I was talking to my freind today, and he said that even a serial killer will go to havean if he/she accept Jeusu into there heart, who is on death row, just before the lethal injectionon.

I must point out that the word will is a bad choice since the person's standing is conditional upon if he or she really was genuine in their calling out to God. If someone does repent sincerely, God is able to forgive. It is not your decision. That is between that person and God. You can not know if people truly repent just based upon what their past actions were. That would be highly presuptuous, especially when you are looking at the severity of the act and not the potential for one to change their heart for the better. You have not moved into the postion of being God, the Judge.

I do not believe this idea. I think it take far more work then just a simple acceptances of Christ. I mean come on we are talking about killers who killed 100's of people! Even killing one person out of hate, takes far more work, then I believe in Christ and then off to the execution to heaven.

In context of their current decision, it does not matter what they did before compared to what they have done now. Look at your walk with God as track meet. You can start out very good and fail before the finish line; you can start out very bad and improve along the way and cross the finish line, or alternate between good and bad performances and still finish the race. It is how you finish the race with God that counts. That is not the best analogy; but it should help to get the point accross.

And then all the good unbeliever are going to hell!

See above. You also do not have a good grasp of Biblical concepts on this matter. You make it seem that you can preplan your actions and fool God at the end. It should be sensible to think that you can not deliberately do things against God and He not know it.

I'm sorry Christians but this belief is wrong.

When you approach scripture, you must also think that you may be wrong; otherwise, you will fall into a trap of making your view as the new gospel. Your belief then replaces the scriptures in the book, and your error becomes truth.
 
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Montalban

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vedickings said:
Ok, I was talking to my freind today, and he said that even a serial killer will go to havean if he/she accept Jeusu into there heart, who is on death row, just before the lethal injectionon.

I do not believe this idea. I think it take far more work then just a simple acceptances of Christ. I mean come on we are talking about killers who killed 100's of people! Even killing one person out of hate, takes far more work, then I believe in Christ and then off to the
[size=-1]execution to heaven.

And then all the good unbeliever are going to hell!

I'm sorry Christians but this belief is wrong.
[/size]

A similar question is being asked by a muslim on another thread. The notion of 'faith alone' (sola fide) is not held by a majority of Christians.

Your lampooning of it is nothing new. If you read Hogg's "Confessions of a Justified Sinner" you'll see the same sentiment expressed.

The notion of sola fide is something that is 'novel' to Christianity in that it was really only voiced by Martin Luther 1,500 years after Christ.
 
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WBC

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Montalban said:
I read the post as implying that this person, the killer, is unrepentent
It was written more in the sense to imply that the bible teaches that anyone, no matter how evil, can be saved simply by accepting Jesus because there would be no incentive for 'serial killers' (for example) to become a 'believer' otherwise. If the bible taught that criminals would burn in hell no matter what... would they accept Christ? What would be the point? In order to 'repent and be saved' one must essentially become Christian... and THAT is the whole purpose. IMO.
 
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Montalban

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WBC said:
It was written more in the sense to imply that the bible teaches that anyone, no matter how evil, can be saved simply by accepting Jesus because there would be no incentive for 'serial killers' (for example) to become a 'believer' otherwise. If the bible taught that criminals would burn in hell no matter what... would they accept Christ? What would be the point? In order to 'repent and be saved' one must essentially become Christian... and THAT is the whole purpose. IMO.
I read the question differently.

Also, all that I believe about Jesus teachings aren't in the Bible. The doctrine of sola scriptura is also a minority belief, flawed because I could use the Bible to counter what you just said. Thus I could quote a Biblcal verse where Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

This suggests that having faith is not enough, because you have to do something - God's Will
 
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WBC

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Montalban said:
I read the question differently.

Also, all that I believe about Jesus teachings aren't in the Bible. The doctrine of sola scriptura is also a minority belief, flawed because I could use the Bible to counter what you just said. Thus I could quote a Biblcal verse where Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

This suggests that having faith is not enough, because you have to do something - God's Will

But for how long must you do God's will to be saved?
 
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ReBjorn

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Well, Jesus also said that the deed He wanted people to do, was to believe in Him.

The other deeds come after you have had some time to let God grow in you.

And salvation is not because of our deeds, so that no one should brag, but it's the gift of God, by His mercy.

Surely, you must agree with this?
 
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Montalban

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WBC said:
But for how long must you do God's will to be saved?
As long as you're with Him at the end. (there's a parable about a guy who hires workers throughout the day. He pays those he hired late afternoon the same as those that have been working for him since morning)
 
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missionette

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Im just going to copy/paste what i just said in another thread:
I am pleased to once again use the same verse to help answer a different question! Eph. 2:8-10:
"For it is by grace that we are saved through faith"
(The grace of Jesus makes it possible for us to accept God through our faith in Him)
"and that not by good works, lest any man should bost."

(salvation is not earned, it is given, so no one who has done good things can brag about them)
"For we are God's workmanship"
(Christians=Little Christ, we are God's representative)
"created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which He has prepared in advance."

(We were "born and born again" by and through Jesus so that we could go and represent Him by doing good works which He made for us before there was time)



I could be on death row and accept christ. you may not know if i was sincere, but God would, God decides in the end!
 
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WBC

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I could be on death row and accept christ. you may not know if i was sincere, but God would, God decides in the end!

Ahhh, there it is in a nutshell.
And who can question the wisdom of God?
So to accept God, one also must accept that he will allow serial killers into heaven should they find him in the end. Just think, you can sit down next to the person who killed your sister in heaven. And after all... does God not say to forgive?
And who are we to judge a serial killer? Does God not say Judge not? Perhaps we should just let them all go free... after all;
'Concern yourself not with the wicked... vengence is mine?' so if they fail to repent they will pay anyway. So it seems the whole point to our existance is to please God so we can be forgiven for our 'sins'. This does make me wonder why God created beings that were capable of sin and free will if he wanted us to only please him though.
All in all very interesting, yet difficult to make sense of.
 
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Alliance

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Hey vedickings,

The Bible tells us that when one truly becomes a Christian - you're a new creation. The old things are stripped away. By God's grace anyone can come and ask for and receive forgiveness if they truly mean it. We don't deserve forgiveness and we can't earn forgiveness by being good and so on (the Bible actually tells us that we as sinners deserve death), that is why God graciously made it a free gift. He knew that there was nothing that mankind could do to attain it, so He gave it to us through the sacrifice and resurrection of His Son.

Once you have accepted Christ you must repent of your old evil ways and change. In fact, out of your love for Christ you should make it your mission to become as much like Him as you can out of grattitude and love for Him and what He has done for you.

I think it take far more work then just a simple acceptances of Christ. I mean come on we are talking about killers who killed 100's of people!

You'd think so, but that's it. No strings attached. When one truly asks for forgiveness then God by His grace and mercy has essentially forgotten their sins and all the other sins you have done because of the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross who took the penalty for our sin (i.e. He took what we deserve - He took our place) and thus made us righteous in God's eyes if we acknowledge His Son and what He did for us by taking away our sins. That's what I find amazing about God, no matter how bad you are - God doesn't just shut the door! He still loves you the same as He does His followers! Isn't that amazing? He wants all to know and love Him and experience His love and forgiveness in return.

And then all the good unbeliever are going to hell!

Because they are still holding onto their sins, while the serial killer has given them up to Christ and asked for forgiveness. In God's sight, therefore, the serial killer is righteous and pure (because of the sacrifice of Christ Jesus) -- while the unbeliever is still holding onto their sins and are wicked in the sight of God. In fact, through their unbelief they are actually holding onto their sins and saying that they want nothing to do with Jesus and His forgiveness. Thus, when on Judgment Day they approach the Throne of God they will get exactly what they asked for by holding onto their sins - they will be removed from Jesus' presence. This is why on Judgment Day Jesus will say to all wicked and unbelievers, Depart from me for I know you not. And when you are removed from the loving, perfect and eternal life giving presence of God the only natural alternative is eternal death and agony - which is hell.

So, just going over that last part again. Through your unbelief you are holding onto your sins and in doing so are saying that you want nothing to do with Jesus and His powers of forgiveness. Therefore, God will sadly grant you your wish and remove yourself from His presence. It's your choice what happens. You can't go around claiming, Wah, wah, God lets in killers but the good unbeliever like myself goes to hell. You're getting what you asked for through your unbelief and holding onto your sins. Those who go to hell only have themselves to blame as they haven't accepted Jesus' ability to forgive their sins and present them faultless before our creator God - you can't blame God.
 
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