Serial killers and the like?

[Galadriel]

Hey all,
Well, I was just reading a book (fiction) and it was about a serial killer, it was called Intensity by Dean Koontz. Well, it just got me thinking, and I probably know the answer, but I just found myself asking that age old question...why?? Why does God allow these psycopathic killers who are without a shred of mercy to do unspeakable horrors to victims all for their own sadistic pleasure?? I know, it is because of sin, but it just seems so highly unjust and sin seems like too shoddy of an explanation for something so horrific.
I mean, these killers get pleasure and enjoyment out of making others suffer unspeakable tourtures that if they are lucky they can be released from by death. Its like they are Satan's lacky men, how can a human being be so...so cruel? Also, if these killers are born with some ingrained malfunction that makes them disposed to doing these things (like killing animals when young, then it escalates to people) what does God do with them? Its like they were put on the earth without a hope of heaven because of what is in their minds, and probably they wouldn't want to go to heaven or believe in a God anyways, as they tend to be power hungry. It is hard to believe that they are real people, humans, its like Satan created them instead of God and infused his own sick sadisticness into them.

 

[oneiric]

Why does He allow it? Because it is free will. We choose to do what we do because God gave us free will. If He took it away, we'd be robots.


Here is an excerpt from a site:

God gave Adam dominion over the world (Gen. 1:28). When he rebelled against God, he set in motion an entire series of events and changed the very nature of man and creation. Both were affected by sin. Creation was no longer a paradise, but bore thorns and thistles (Gen. 3:17-18; Rom. 8:22). People became sinful (Rom. 5:12; Eph. 2:3), who were haters of God (Rom. 3:19-12), etc. The only conclusion to such a situation is death. Jesus said, "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened" (Matt. 24:22).
Sin is rebellion against God and His created order. But God has not left us alone in this fallen world. He continued to enter this world, pointing us to Himself, to truth, to morality, purity, and love. He used the evil of the world (liars, perjurers, the envious, etc), to bring His Son to the cross so that we might have the opportunity of eternal life. In this, God has not stepped away from fallen creation, but has stepped into it by becoming Jesus. God works within the fallen world to affect change and He uses fallen people to accomplish His will. In this, He is proving His sovereignty over evil, suffering, and rebellious people, proving that sin and evil are utterly futile, and that He is worthy of honor and glory.
A third possible reason that God is letting evil occur is so that on the day of judgment, the condemned will have no right to say that their sentence is unjust. God is not stopping people from exercising their free will. Think about this: If someone said that God should stop evil and suffering, then should God then stop all evil and suffering? If God only stopped some of it, then we would still be asking the same question of why it exists. So, if we want God to stop evil and suffering, then He must stop all of it. We have no problem with this when it means stopping a catastrophe, or a murder, or a rape. But what about when someone thinks of something evil? Evil is evil whether it is acted out or not. Hatred and bigotry in someone’s heart is wrong. If it is wrong, and if God is to stop all evil, then He must stop that person from thinking his own thoughts. To do that, God must remove his freedom of thought. Furthermore, which person on the earth has not thought something evil? God would be required, then, to stop all people from exercising their free will. This is something God has chosen not to do. Therefore, we could say that one of the reasons that God permits evil and suffering is because of man’s free will.

 

[Galadriel]

Yes, what you say is very true, if God stops some of it, then He has to stop all of it, or none of it would be free will.

 

[papakapp]

I liked that book. In fact, I think there might be a tiny little spiritual application that one can draw from that book.
In the long run, is suffering worse than joy? Isn't suffering benefical because it shapes who we will be for eternity?
Obviously the book takes it too far-to the harm of other people-which is bad, but Is being a cop really any better than eating a spider?

 

[Galadriel]

I liked that book. In fact, I think there might be a tiny little spiritual application that one can draw from that book.
In the long run, is suffering worse than joy? Isn't suffering benefical because it shapes who we will be for eternity?
Obviously the book takes it too far-to the harm of other people-which is bad, but Is being a cop really any better than eating a spider?

Hmm, I am not quite following you here papakapp, could you perhaps elaborate some? Thank you.

 

[Reformationist]

Hey all,
Well, I was just reading a book (fiction) and it was about a serial killer, it was called Intensity by Dean Koontz. Well, it just got me thinking, and I probably know the answer, but I just found myself asking that age old question...why?? Why does God allow these psycopathic killers who are without a shred of mercy to do unspeakable horrors to victims all for their own sadistic pleasure?? I know, it is because of sin, but it just seems so highly unjust and sin seems like too shoddy of an explanation for something so horrific.
I mean, these killers get pleasure and enjoyment out of making others suffer unspeakable tourtures that if they are lucky they can be released from by death. Its like they are Satan's lacky men, how can a human being be so...so cruel? Also, if these killers are born with some ingrained malfunction that makes them disposed to doing these things (like killing animals when young, then it escalates to people) what does God do with them? Its like they were put on the earth without a hope of heaven because of what is in their minds, and probably they wouldn't want to go to heaven or believe in a God anyways, as they tend to be power hungry. It is hard to believe that they are real people, humans, its like Satan created them instead of God and infused his own sick sadisticness into them.

Reformed Christians have a saying that goes "There, but by the grace of God, go I." This is an acknowledgement of the natural, inherent evil of fallen mankind. I know that without the restraining grace of God we all would be just as bad as, if not worse than, these atrocious people.

It is people like these serial killers that really reveal to us the grace of God and His love for us.

God bless

 

[quicksilver]

Do yourself a favor, and pick up the book "The Case For Faith" by Lee Strobel. The first chapter deals with this in an enlightening way I've never thought before.

 

[Philosoft]

True psychopaths are almost deterministic in their drives to fulfill the demented fantasies that exist in their heads. To say that psychopathic behavior is a mere choice, like any oft-mentioned consequence of imperfect free will, is to be phenomenally ignorant of the body of psychological research that currently exists. It is rougly equivalent to a claim that schizophrenics choose to have hallucinations.

 

[papakapp]

Hmm, I am not quite following you here papakapp, could you perhaps elaborate some? Thank you.

I am just saying that we, as people might spend too much time trying to stay happy. Maybe there is a way to have Joy in Christ in spite of our circumstances. The early Church was persecuted and killed for what they believe (and some today) They did not seem all that depressed obout it. Oh sure, they didn't have an easy life but they were happy to be counted worthy of suffering in the same manner as Christ. Maybe if we really found refuge in Christ aome of these little things wouldn't seem so big.

I only brought it up now because it reminded me of the nutcase in intensity. He didn't mind eating a spider, he saw it as an experience, and therefore it had some value.

Maybe we should look at trials like not having enough money or whatever as a valuable lesson which should teach us to rely on God more, rather than looking at that experience as a bad thing.

There are tons of applications that a person can draw from not-so-happy experiences, I just posted one off the top of my head.

 

[Galadriel]

I am just saying that we, as people might spend too much time trying to stay happy. Maybe there is a way to have Joy in Christ in spite of our circumstances. The early Church was persecuted and killed for what they believe (and some today) They did not seem all that depressed obout it. Oh sure, they didn't have an easy life but they were happy to be counted worthy of suffering in the same manner as Christ. Maybe if we really found refuge in Christ aome of these little things wouldn't seem so big.

I only brought it up now because it reminded me of the nutcase in intensity. He didn't mind eating a spider, he saw it as an experience, and therefore it had some value.

Maybe we should look at trials like not having enough money or whatever as a valuable lesson which should teach us to rely on God more, rather than looking at that experience as a bad thing.

There are tons of applications that a person can draw from not-so-happy experiences, I just posted one off the top of my head.

Hmm, I see what you mean, I think that is a good idea, to look at what can be learned and gained from every experience. The killer did savor every single experience, the spider, pain, intensity, whatever crossed his path, he welcomed it and submersed himself in the sensations of it. Morbid, but maybe we could learn something of that.

 

[JT]

Why does He allow it? Because it is free will. We choose to do what we do because God gave us free will. If He took it away, we'd be robots.
Sin is rebellion against God and His created order. But God has not left us alone in this fallen world. He continued to enter this world, pointing us to Himself, to truth, to morality, purity, and love. He used the evil of the world (liars, perjurers, the envious, etc), to bring His Son to the cross so that we might have the opportunity of eternal life. In this, God has not stepped away from fallen creation, but has stepped into it by becoming Jesus. God works within the fallen world to affect change and He uses fallen people to accomplish His will. In this, He is proving His sovereignty over evil, suffering, and rebellious people, proving that sin and evil are utterly futile, and that He is worthy of honor and glory.

This was an exceptional reply be the way. Could you give me your opinions on how you believe God uses the "fallen" to His ends. I know this is true, that in the last days the darkness will serve the Light, but I am interested in ways in which this may happen