Serena Williams - what is sortsmanship

[Zoii]

So even if you hate tennis, you will no doubt have seen the news following the penalties imposed on Serena Williams.

To recap for those who have lived under a rock the past few days:

• The match umpire saw Serena Williams making eye contact with her coach and saw the coach making gestures. The referee determined that coaching was occurring which is against competition rules.
• The umpire warned Williams of a coaching violation.
• Williams took exception and argued with the umpire that she was not being coached.
• In an interview following the match, William's coach admitted he was indeed coaching.
• Williams was behind in the match and after a loss of a point smashed her racket.
• According to competition rules that is a court violation. As she had already received a warning, the penalty automatically escalated to a loss of a point.
• It as at this point Serena Williams left the baseline and confronted the umpire - some will call it an assertive conversation while others will term it something different. Whats objective is that her voice was very raised, had called the umpire a liar and a thief, and continued in that state for several minutes.
• To confront any match official, lines people or ground staff regarding the performance of their duty is a violation. The automatic penalty as she had had a warning and a point violation, is the loss of a game. That penalty was imposed.

So those are the facts. There is now a debate with one side arguing in favour of Williams' confrontation.

others regarded it was a) extremely poor sportsmanship
b) total disrespect for match officials

What really was quite sad was the amount of booing from the predominantly American public. Whether they booed the winner, Osaka, or the match Officials, or Williams I o not know but I suspect the boos were in sympathy for Williams....that behaviour from the American audience was disrespectful and totally adverse to the nature of good sportsmanship.

This is not isolated to tennis. I see it a lot in Soccer, and I'm told it happens a lot in sports like baseball...where players confront the match officials.

In contrast is the men's sport of Rugby Union and the women's sports of field Hockey and Netball. When a referee makes a decision - good or bad - agree with it or not - the only answer a player makes in those sports is, YES SIR/MAAM.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

So even if you hate tennis, you will no doubt have seen the news following the penalties imposed on Serena Williams.

To recap for those who have lived under a rock the past few days:

• The match umpire saw Serena Williams making eye contact with her coach and saw the coach making gestures. The referee determined that coaching was occurring which is against competition rules.
• The umpire warned Williams of a coaching violation.
• Williams took exception and argued with the umpire that she was not being coached.
• In an interview following the match, William's coach admitted he was indeed coaching.
• Williams was behind in the match and after a loss of a point smashed her racket.
• According to competition rules that is a court violation. As she had already received a warning, the penalty automatically escalated to a loss of a point.
• It as at this point Serena Williams left the baseline and confronted the umpire - some will call it an assertive conversation while others will term it something different. Whats objective is that her voice was very raised, had called the umpire a liar and a thief, and continued in that state for several minutes.
• To confront any match official, lines people or ground staff regarding the performance of their duty is a violation. The automatic penalty as she had had a warning and a point violation, is the loss of a game. That penalty was imposed.

So those are the facts. There is now a debate with one side arguing in favour of Williams' confrontation.

others regarded it was a) extremely poor sportsmanship
b) total disrespect for match officials

What really was quite sad was the amount of booing from the predominantly American public. Whether they booed the winner, Osaka, or the match Officials, or Williams I o not know but I suspect the boos were in sympathy for Williams....that behaviour from the American audience was disrespectful and totally adverse to the nature of good sportsmanship.

This is not isolated to tennis. I see it a lot in Soccer, and I'm told it happens a lot in sports like baseball...where players confront the match officials.

In contrast is the men's sport of Rugby Union and the women's sports of field Hockey and Netball. When a referee makes a decision - good or bad - agree with it or not - the only answer a player makes in those sports is, YES SIR/MAAM.

Certainly this is not to Williams credit. The match officials were simply enforcing the rules. Her actions were uncalled for, and the booing shameful.

I hate tennis, personally. But this is some of the worst sportsmanship I have ever seen or heard off.

 

[Seville90210]

This really doesn't look good on Serena's end.

'I'm honest, I was coaching' - Serena's coach Patrick Mouratoglou

Serena Williams' coach, Patrick Mouratoglou, has admitted that he was making hand gestures after she was hit by a coaching violation in the controversial US Open final won by Naomi Osaka 6-2 6-4.

https://www.eurosport.com/tennis/us...ch-patrick-mouratoglou_sto6924863/story.shtml


U.S. Open 2018: Patrick Mouratoglou admits to coaching Serena Williams during final

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/tenn...hing-us-open-final/1d389r53p48k51pqdj9gvzvon6

 

[Zoii]

This really doesn't look good on Serena's end.

'I'm honest, I was coaching' - Serena's coach Patrick Mouratoglou

Serena Williams' coach, Patrick Mouratoglou, has admitted that he was making hand gestures after she was hit by a coaching violation in the controversial US Open final won by Naomi Osaka 6-2 6-4.

https://www.eurosport.com/tennis/us...ch-patrick-mouratoglou_sto6924863/story.shtml


U.S. Open 2018: Patrick Mouratoglou admits to coaching Serena Williams during final

http://www.sportingnews.com/us/tenn...hing-us-open-final/1d389r53p48k51pqdj9gvzvon6

I dont get the Booing. I mean I understand Americans were wanting Serena to win...but to Boo when the Japanese girl won - And you know what ? She was by far the better player and deserved her win

 

[RDKirk]

Certainly this is not to Williams credit. The match officials were simply enforcing the rules. Her actions were uncalled for, and the booing shameful.

I hate tennis, personally. But this is some of the worst sportsmanship I have ever seen or heard off.

You must not have been watching tennis for very long.

Or baseball.

Or basketball.

Or soccer.

 

[Seville90210]

I dont get the Booing. I mean I understand Americans were wanting Serena to win...but to Boo when the Japanese girl won - And you know what ? She was by far the better player and deserved her win

Yeah, Naomi Osaka won 6-2 6-4. Not a close match. She was the better player.

 

[DogmaHunter]

So even if you hate tennis, you will no doubt have seen the news following the penalties imposed on Serena Williams.

To recap for those who have lived under a rock the past few days:

• The match umpire saw Serena Williams making eye contact with her coach and saw the coach making gestures. The referee determined that coaching was occurring which is against competition rules.
• The umpire warned Williams of a coaching violation.
• Williams took exception and argued with the umpire that she was not being coached.
• In an interview following the match, William's coach admitted he was indeed coaching.
• Williams was behind in the match and after a loss of a point smashed her racket.
• According to competition rules that is a court violation. As she had already received a warning, the penalty automatically escalated to a loss of a point.
• It as at this point Serena Williams left the baseline and confronted the umpire - some will call it an assertive conversation while others will term it something different. Whats objective is that her voice was very raised, had called the umpire a liar and a thief, and continued in that state for several minutes.
• To confront any match official, lines people or ground staff regarding the performance of their duty is a violation. The automatic penalty as she had had a warning and a point violation, is the loss of a game. That penalty was imposed.

So those are the facts. There is now a debate with one side arguing in favour of Williams' confrontation.

others regarded it was a) extremely poor sportsmanship
b) total disrespect for match officials

What really was quite sad was the amount of booing from the predominantly American public. Whether they booed the winner, Osaka, or the match Officials, or Williams I o not know but I suspect the boos were in sympathy for Williams....that behaviour from the American audience was disrespectful and totally adverse to the nature of good sportsmanship.

This is not isolated to tennis. I see it a lot in Soccer, and I'm told it happens a lot in sports like baseball...where players confront the match officials.

In contrast is the men's sport of Rugby Union and the women's sports of field Hockey and Netball. When a referee makes a decision - good or bad - agree with it or not - the only answer a player makes in those sports is, YES SIR/MAAM.

Don't forget that Serena also doesn't have the best reputation concerning keeping her cool when things don't go her way.

She got disqualified before for supposedly threatening to impose physical harm on a line person. I also think it's insane of her to start pulling the sexism card and stuff.

Wether the first warning, concerning the coaching, was valid or not, I'll leave in the middle. If she didn't agree with it, she is allowed to express that. But even objections should be within the confines of the rules. There is no excuse for her outrageous behaviour. And even then.... it's idd like in soccer.... the umpire is NOT going to change his decision, simply because you are complaining. In fact, the only thing it will result in, is backfire. If anything at all changes because of the complaining, it will only result in the umpire become more hostile towards you. So from the get-go, you know in advance that no good will come from it.

Having played a lot of high-level tennis myself in my younger days (I'm actually generation Kim Clijsters / Xavier Malisse and have trained with both at age 14-15), I probably realise like no other how high emotions can get during big matches. Indeed, I also smashed my portion of rackets and engaged in unacceptable behaviour. In a way I get it. At such times, you almost can't help yourself. You are like fighting for your life in such a match and when such a ruling comes that you consider unfair - it is VERY easy to lose it mentally/emotionally.

But I was a 14-year old kid. She is a +30-year old (or whatever, don't know exactly) professional with like....what... 15 years of professional experience?

Keeping your cool in tough situations is part of the game.
She failed at that. And hard. It's also the best way to ruin your game for the rest of the match. You can't concentrate properly after such an episode.

In all of tennis history, that I know of, I knew of only 1 player who not only didn't ruin his game by acting like this, but it actually helped him get focused again. That player is none other then John Mcenroe. But he too, had to pay the price for it from time to time. He also had his share of disqualifications, penalties and even fines - and people literally expected him to act like that.

The difference between John and Serena, is that John wasn't a baby about it and took his punishments like a man who knew he deserved it.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I remember a time when Americans valued sportsmanship. I am saddened by the loss of that attitude in the U.S.. Williams is simply a product of the prevailing culture in the country that can be summed up in the popular phrase " If you're not cheating , your not trying." Her anger at being called to account for breaking the rules is another attitude that has become prevalent in recent years. The current stance of many is that rules one finds inconvenient are to be ignored and anyone trying to enforce those rules is doing so with evil intent of some kind. Thirdly, there is an increasing tendency for Americans to think that if one ever fails it must be because someone else purposely and unfairly kept one from succeeding. Self examination and taking responsibility for one's own failings are not to be attempted blaming others is righteous.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

You must not have been watching tennis for very long.

Or baseball.

Or basketball.

Or soccer.

Yes, I watch none of those.

 

[Zoii]

You must not have been watching tennis for very long.

Or baseball.

Or basketball.

Or soccer.

Its really something the international sporting bodies should be addressing. The referees/umpires, whether at local amateur level or professional international level, make a decision. Their role is not to consult all players to see if they agree. Their role is not to consult with the crowd first. Their role is to make the best decision they are able according to what they observed.

Once that decision is made - THATS IT. There should never be any back-chat.

Rugby Union internationally is the absolute stand-out. The captain is allowed to ask the referee what the decision was - thats IT!! All other players simply say YES SIR. That culture is enforced from international to local grass root levels. Its also enforced with coaches AND the crowd. The Code of conduct is something rugby is proud of and works on.

Now back to that match. Serena had an opportunity to make a complaint to the Tennis referee association or the Tennis governing body. But she chose to take up the issue in the middle of a match. It disrespected her opposition, it disrespected the officials and the game of tennis. It was also disgraceful how she played up to the pro-American crowd and bring them into it.

I am a very strong feminist. Gee was I annoyed she pulled the sexism then racism card. Just appalling sportsmanship is what it was Serena.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I remember a time when Americans valued sportsmanship. I am saddened by the loss of that attitude in the U.S.. Williams is simply a product of the prevailing culture in the country that can be summed up in the popular phrase " If you're not cheating , your not trying." Her anger at being called to account for breaking the rules is another attitude that has become prevalent in recent years. The current stance of many is that rules one finds inconvenient are to be ignored and anyone trying to enforce those rules is doing so with evil intent of some kind. Thirdly, there is an increasing tendency for Americans to think that if one ever fails it must be because someone else purposely and unfairly kept one from succeeding. Self examination and taking responsibility for one's own failings are not to be attempted blaming others is righteous.

Don't you think you're a bit "out there", to make such statements based on this single example of 1 person?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Don't you think you're a bit "out there", to make such statements based on this single example of 1 person?

It is not based upon this single example . The examples are legion.

 

[Zoii]

Don't you think you're a bit "out there", to make such statements based on this single example of 1 person?

Do you disagree with the sentiments. Do you believe the behaviours we saw from Williams and the public were just an isolated incident - Just that tennis match . Look I dont know how Americans (or other nations outside of my own country) are at a local level...but gee when you see soccer on TV and watch first the "diving" then the team surround a referee when he has to make a difficult decision... Its not hard to research and find that this was far from an isolated case

 

[A_Thinker]

So even if you hate tennis, you will no doubt have seen the news following the penalties imposed on Serena Williams.

To recap for those who have lived under a rock the past few days:

• The match umpire saw Serena Williams making eye contact with her coach and saw the coach making gestures. The referee determined that coaching was occurring which is against competition rules.
• The umpire warned Williams of a coaching violation.
• Williams took exception and argued with the umpire that she was not being coached.
• In an interview following the match, William's coach admitted he was indeed coaching.
• Williams was behind in the match and after a loss of a point smashed her racket.
• According to competition rules that is a court violation. As she had already received a warning, the penalty automatically escalated to a loss of a point.
• It as at this point Serena Williams left the baseline and confronted the umpire - some will call it an assertive conversation while others will term it something different. Whats objective is that her voice was very raised, had called the umpire a liar and a thief, and continued in that state for several minutes.
• To confront any match official, lines people or ground staff regarding the performance of their duty is a violation. The automatic penalty as she had had a warning and a point violation, is the loss of a game. That penalty was imposed.

So those are the facts. There is now a debate with one side arguing in favour of Williams' confrontation.

others regarded it was a) extremely poor sportsmanship
b) total disrespect for match officials

What really was quite sad was the amount of booing from the predominantly American public. Whether they booed the winner, Osaka, or the match Officials, or Williams I o not know but I suspect the boos were in sympathy for Williams....that behaviour from the American audience was disrespectful and totally adverse to the nature of good sportsmanship.

This is not isolated to tennis. I see it a lot in Soccer, and I'm told it happens a lot in sports like baseball...where players confront the match officials.

In contrast is the men's sport of Rugby Union and the women's sports of field Hockey and Netball. When a referee makes a decision - good or bad - agree with it or not - the only answer a player makes in those sports is, YES SIR/MAAM.

Shades of John McEnroe ...

 

[A_Thinker]

I remember a time when Americans valued sportsmanship.

You're speaking of when John McEnroe was playing ?

 

[DogmaHunter]

You must not have been watching tennis for very long.

Or baseball.

Or basketball.

Or soccer.

Especially soccer.

Don't know about basketball or baseball, but generally in tennis, the prevailing theme is general good sportsman ship. It's one of those sports where, both culturally and historically, very little is tolerated.

There's a very clear "etiquette" in tennis as well, which reflects such a culture. To give one simple example... if during some exchange, one of your balls hits the net and bounces unto the court making you win the point (adversary is too surprised and can't get to it in time), you are expected to hold up your racket or hand symbolizing an apology towards the adversary because you just won the point with sheer luck instead of skill. Generally it is also frowned upon to "celebrate" winning that point.
And this is the case on every level - no just for pro's. Just to illustrate the kind of culture that lives in tennis circles.

Which is exactly why it is so extra outrageous to see someone like Serena, who's supposed to be an example and inspiration for younger players, act in this manner.

As I said previously, the only player of whom such behaviour was ever somewhat "tolerated" was John Mcenroe. No idea why though. Everybody, for some reason, simply accepted this of him. If you had to play him, you just knew that at some point he would explode over almost nothing.


As for soccer.......... that's a REALLY nasty culture, in terms of sportsmanship. As in: there isn't any. To the point that a lot of times, most times really, players are actually instructed by their coach to try and cheat. Whenever an attacks has the ball inside the box of the opposing team, he'll drop to the floor "screaming in pain" at the slightest touch.

And they do this on purpose. They'll be screaming pain as if their leg just got broken in 75 places and 5 seconds later, they are taking a free kick and smashing it against the net at 200 km/h with that same foot.

Or when the ball goes out, EVERY SINGLE TIME, both teams will be claiming the ball.
It doesn't matter how mega obvious it was who last touched it. They'll all deny it and claim the ball anyway.

If referee's of soccer matches would apply the rules strictly to the letter, then just about every soccer game will begin with 2 teams of 11 and then end up with teams of like 4 or 5 near the end. All the rest will been suspended with a red card.

I love watching football. But such behaviour so messes up the game...
That's what I love about the Belgian national team. Guys like the brothers Hazard, De Bruyne, etc... they don't play that silly game. They just want to play soccer. I have never seen Eden Hazard drop himself without reason. If he can stay up and play - he'll do so.

As opposed to Neymar...........................................

I'm sure you've seen the memes:

 

[A_Thinker]

I am a very strong feminist. Gee was I annoyed she pulled the sexism then racism card. Just appalling sportsmanship is what it was Serena.

When did race become an issue ?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Do you disagree with the sentiments. Do you believe the behaviours we saw from Williams and the public were just an isolated incident - Just that tennis match . Look I dont know how Americans (or other nations outside of my own country) are at a local level...but gee when you see soccer on TV and watch first the "diving" then the team surround a referee when he has to make a difficult decision... Its not hard to research and find that this was far from an isolated case

Soccer has been like that for a very long time already.
They are actually instructed by their coaches to act like that, in the hopes of tricking the referee into allowing penalties and such.

Or worse still.... look at champions league finals last year... Sergio Ramos single handedly won that tournament. First, he disabled Liverpool's star Mo Salah, by locking in his arm during a tackle which injured him and left him unable to continue playing.

Then, he elbowed the keeper, giving him a concussion wich resulted in him making 2 fatal mistakes and liverpool conceding goals on both occasions.

Ramos is, unsurprisingly, the record holder of MOST yellow and red cards in a carreer in all of the european competitions. He's basically a professional cheater.

And to answer your question: yes. I very much will claim that in tennis, situations such as this are rather rare and isolated. The fact that this serena incident is big news, is evidence of that. If it happened every other day, it would rather be "business as usual".

After all, we also don't see news items of "soccer player take a dive while nothing is going on", do we? Because it happens about 5 times per match, in almost all levels and competitions.

 

[DogmaHunter]

You're speaking of when John McEnroe was playing ?

Okay. So you found 2 players in the past 3-4 decades that threw a tantrum.

What about all the others? Borg, Lendl, Agassi, Edberg, Graff, ......... all of which are people that were so fairplay that they have been known to actually correct the umpire while his ruling was in their advantage. I remember one specific instance of Lendl during the ECC (a competition that used to exist in Belgium). The umpire called a ball out in Lendl's advantage. The other guy (don't remember who it was) complained and Lendl agree that it was on the line and that they should replay the point. The umpire refused. Lendl then proceeded to committing a double fault on purpose.

I'll certainly admit that you'll be hard pressed to find THAT kind of sportsmanship today, even in tennis. In a way perhaps to be expected.... Competions today are a LOT more intense and there's also a lot more money involved. So emotions will run higher - this is logical.

But to hold up this Serena incident as being the "new standard" of sportsmanship... that's just wrong.

 

[Zoii]

When did race become an issue ?

Williams stated publicly post-match that the decisions made were made in part because she is an African American.