Separation and/or Divorce

[qtpie71]

TO EVERYONE:

I think this will be my last post on the subject. I've come to a conclusion:

He has been physically abusive in the past as well as emotionally/mentally. Before we were married it was alot worse than it is now. He was not faithful before we were married, but has been since. He also has been a gambler the entire time we've been together which has hurt us greatly. He is not trustworthy. He isn't physically abusive anymore and since his legal trouble, he isn't abusive in any way. Alot of people say he's just being like that because it's a time of crisis and he's just being nice to keep me around. Could be true but how will one know that unless they stick around until after the crisis is over? That is the kind of regret I don't want to have....the whole "what could have been regret".

As far as putting anyone in danger, that may not even come to pass. It depends on if the powers that be even want to go that route. Right now, it's only something that he suggested to his lawyer. The prosecutor might not even be interested in such a conversation. But if it comes to that, obviously I will do what I have to do to protect myself and my family as that will come first regardless of my relationship with my H.

I think I originally wrote this post because I basically wanted to know if it was wrong to separate and/or divorce according to the Bible...that's all I wanted to know. From reading all the posts, I've come to the conclusion that there is no black or white. I feel that basically, divorce is wrong in general, but that there are exceptions to that rule, such as abuse or infidelity. On the flip side, I think I'm safe in saying that the exceptions also include instances, some of which I've noted here, like putting a spouse/family in danger, consistent lasting for years abuse, etc. because I believe that God wants an abundant life for us in every way possible. If you are yoked with someone that is stopping you from having the life that God planned for you, then how can it be wrong to leave? That being said, the decision to leave is also not one that should be made in haste and should be made after counseling has been consulted and prayer has been made etc etc etc. Mine refuses to go to counseling or church so that is not a viable option for me.

So I guess in a nutshell, I have received the answer I was looking for.

I thank all of you who have responded.

God Bless,
K -

 

[DZoolander]

"Dirtbag" huh? How enlightened. Do you mean someone He sent His only begotten Son to die on a cross for? I recommend reading and understanding the book of Hosea (as much as possible).

Yes, "dirtbag".

While in the eyes of God all sin may be equally damnable - saying that in a practical sense living here in the real world that all sin is equivalent is just foolish. There's a huge difference between the damnable sin of telling your wife her butt doesn't look fat in those jeans - and that of beating your spouse.

The former is a normal, rational and probably decent human being. The second is a dirtbag. Both may be going to hell, but one ought to be given an extra kick on the way down.

 

[I Art Laughing]

How could God want me to be unhaaaapy? How could He want me to keep my vows? See here the list of things that my husband has done wrong in the past?

100% rationalization.

This is your marriage, if you quit it you should consider any other "marriage" you contemplate in the future as adultery. Otherwise, I'd suggest you work it out. If that is untenable I think divorce is your last resort.

 

[qtpie71]

How could God want me to be unhaaaapy? How could He want me to keep my vows? See here the list of things that my husband has done wrong in the past?

100% rationalization.

This is your marriage, if you quit it you should consider any other "marriage" you contemplate in the future as adultery. Otherwise, I'd suggest you work it out. If that is untenable I think divorce is your last resort.

Is there sarcasm there in your first paragraph?

 

[I Art Laughing]

On the flip side, I think I'm safe in saying that the exceptions also include instances, some of which I've noted here, like putting a spouse/family in danger, consistent lasting for years abuse, etc. because I believe that God wants an abundant life for us in every way possible. If you are yoked with someone that is stopping you from having the life that God planned for you, then how can it be wrong to leave?

It was a sarcastic summarization, and I apologize. I think that if you really started seeking God's peace concerning His will you will find it. I don't think divorce is the answer, separation sounds like a wise plan with the hopes that you would be able to reconcile in the future. If you are married, I believe that your husband is de facto in God's plans for you.

I don't think you will find the sentiments I quoted reflected in or supported by the Bible and I think you should consider that. I am sorry that I suggested it in such an abrasive manner.

 

[Luther073082]

It was a sarcastic summarization, and I apologize. I think that if you really started seeking God's peace concerning His will you will find it. I don't think divorce is the answer, separation sounds like a wise plan with the hopes that you would be able to reconcile in the future. If you are married, I believe that your husband is de facto in God's plans for you.

I don't think you will find the sentiments I quoted reflected in or supported by the Bible and I think you should consider that. I am sorry that I suggested it in such an abrasive manner.

I'm in agreement. . . seperation is only for your safety. In terms of what you do, your own happiness should not be a consideration.

Happiness was not a part of the vows. I don't see happiness anywhere in the statement "Til death do us part"

 

[JaneFW]

Well maybe they had different vows ya know. I really don't think it's about the vows.

I had a registry office wedding. I have no idea what we said because it was over in a flash, but it was none of the formal stuff. Just kinda "[name] I take you [name]" kinda thing.

That doesn't mean that I don't believe the unspoken vows. It just doesn't matter whether I said them or not.

 

[c1ners]

Besides, I honestly don't think anyone wrote specific wedding vows in the bible.

 

[Chaplain David]

TO EVERYONE:

I think this will be my last post on the subject. I've come to a conclusion:

He has been physically abusive in the past as well as emotionally/mentally. Before we were married it was alot worse than it is now. He was not faithful before we were married, but has been since. He also has been a gambler the entire time we've been together which has hurt us greatly. He is not trustworthy. He isn't physically abusive anymore and since his legal trouble, he isn't abusive in any way. Alot of people say he's just being like that because it's a time of crisis and he's just being nice to keep me around. Could be true but how will one know that unless they stick around until after the crisis is over? That is the kind of regret I don't want to have....the whole "what could have been regret".

As far as putting anyone in danger, that may not even come to pass. It depends on if the powers that be even want to go that route. Right now, it's only something that he suggested to his lawyer. The prosecutor might not even be interested in such a conversation. But if it comes to that, obviously I will do what I have to do to protect myself and my family as that will come first regardless of my relationship with my H.

I think I originally wrote this post because I basically wanted to know if it was wrong to separate and/or divorce according to the Bible...that's all I wanted to know. From reading all the posts, I've come to the conclusion that there is no black or white. I feel that basically, divorce is wrong in general, but that there are exceptions to that rule, such as abuse or infidelity. On the flip side, I think I'm safe in saying that the exceptions also include instances, some of which I've noted here, like putting a spouse/family in danger, consistent lasting for years abuse, etc. because I believe that God wants an abundant life for us in every way possible. If you are yoked with someone that is stopping you from having the life that God planned for you, then how can it be wrong to leave? That being said, the decision to leave is also not one that should be made in haste and should be made after counseling has been consulted and prayer has been made etc etc etc. Mine refuses to go to counseling or church so that is not a viable option for me.

So I guess in a nutshell, I have received the answer I was looking for.

I thank all of you who have responded.

God Bless,
K -

It's good that you've had a place to talk. Many of the responses have also been helpful in my opinion. While I understand what you are doing and why you are doing it do you think that it might just be worth it to give it one last go ---- such as in some good marriage counseling before you decide to call it quits?

You could still separate while this was taking place if you feared for you safety. Getting married is a real big deal and so is breaking up. What do you think? Not how do you feel, but what do you think?

God bless.

 

[qtpie71]

Not how do you feel, but what do you think?

God bless.

Well in regard to counseling, he refuses to go. Whether it's with a pastor or other professional. He also refuses to go to church. What else can I do? And I'm asking that to see what else I can do.

 

[qtpie71]

I'm in agreement. . . seperation is only for your safety. In terms of what you do, your own happiness should not be a consideration.

Happiness was not a part of the vows. I don't see happiness anywhere in the statement "Til death do us part"

No, it wasn't part of the vows but I'm sorry, I don't agree that happiness can't be a consideration. It shouldn't be the only consideration...I can agree with that.

 

[I Art Laughing]

Well in regard to counseling, he refuses to go. Whether it's with a pastor or other professional. He also refuses to go to church. What else can I do? And I'm asking that to see what else I can do.

Ask him to leave and get a restraining order if you are so led (by Jesus). Why divorce at this point?

 

[qtpie71]

It was a sarcastic summarization, and I apologize. I think that if you really started seeking God's peace concerning His will you will find it. I don't think divorce is the answer, separation sounds like a wise plan with the hopes that you would be able to reconcile in the future. If you are married, I believe that your husband is de facto in God's plans for you.

I don't think you will find the sentiments I quoted reflected in or supported by the Bible and I think you should consider that. I am sorry that I suggested it in such an abrasive manner.

It's ok I thought about your post on the way home and I would not be leaving him for simple things like leaving the cap off on the tooth paste or something minor like that. Or even an accumulation of things like that. I'm talking about infidelity while engaged, mental/emotional abuse, gambling to the point I had to claim bankruptcy, burglary, dishonesty, and basically major disrespect before and during the marriage. I was also gravely ill last year and spent 3 months in the hospital. I was on life support and had respiratory and multiple organ failure, was in a drug-induced coma, lost 17 days in it, and he did not visit me except for ONE time. So basically this man does not care about me.

 

[qtpie71]

Ask him to leave and get a restraining order if you are so led (by Jesus). Why divorce at this point?

It would just be separation at this point. That's all.

 

[1Prophetess]

Wow! You do have a dilemma.

First, if you divorced your first and second husband for any reason other than unfaithfulness, you're in trouble with the Lord.

But the good news is that I John 1:9 says that, if we confess our sins, we are cleansed from all unrighteousness. So be sure that you confess your divorces.

Now to the man you now have. He is choosing to do the wrong thing. He gambled and created a mess in your life. After that, he said he would stop, but he didn't. Regardless if he has a problem or not, he lied. He could have said, "I can't stop" admitting the truth. So now it is clear he is a gambler and a liar. Now he is in deep with a drug dealer, so he is a drug user too.

I cannot believe how generous your mother has been! She must love you so much! But her love for you is somewhat cloudy because she is helping him--that guy that is a gambler, liar and drug user. Wonderful, loving mom, but probably making a mistake.

The Lord hates divorce. So you're right about that, if HE leaves, you're free. He's not going to leave. He has a wife who falls for his lies and either is involved in or allows him to use drugs. He has a sugar mama (your mother). He would be stupid to leave at this point with her paying his bill.

I have some background in this situation. My son paid the ultimate price for his relationship with a drug dealer. He died two years ago from being involved with drug people (he was shot in the head sitting in my car at 2:00 a.m.). I would not be involved with your husband for love or money even if he had a million dollars in the bank (and he's broke). If he turns the drug dealer in (and the drug dealer is a big catch for the police), you will be lucky to live through it yourself. He likely may not live through it.

If you are going to stay with him, I would suggest that you get away from your mother (unless your mother has the money to hire a full time guard at your house--a guard that won't be paid off). I would recommend that you move to an apartment with your husband while he is going through this. Get a cheap bachelor apartment so at least you are away from your mother to protect her. I would say that you need to get an apartment that is at least 30 minutes away from your mother so your husband, when he feels he is in danger, doesn't run to your mother's house and get shot there (maybe with her). If he turns in the drug dealer (if the guy is big), then I would immediately move out (I mean that hour or no more than a couple hours) of the apartment and go to a relative's house in (where ever I could be farthest away). I would stay there at least six months and see if your husband survives.

At that point (as soon as he completes the trials and legal stuff), I would insist that he gets into a program immediately. Do not allow him to live with your mother under any circumstances! First, he needs help. But second, it will get you away from him AND it will get him in a place that he is likely not going to be found for a while until things blow over. Tell him that you want him to get into a program, and if he doesn't, you're gone. I would not go back to him at all. Why risk your life? Do you really want to die?

This whole picture scares me for you. Having been through this, I found out a lot of things after my son's death that told me I was being set up to possibly die, and my two sons. I was promised help (by the big dealer), but instead, I had to go and get my son's body and haul it back to where I live--a 14 hour drive with my son's body in the back of our pickup truck! Then, though the drug dealer (who has houses in Vegas and Hawaii and another place--can't recall now) said he would pay for my son's funeral arrangements, he did nothing at all. He just wanted to know who was there. I believe he told everyone of my son's friends that, if they wanted to live, they probably didn't want to be there. Nobody but two girls showed up. Not a single one has contacted me since. One girl, who was close to the matter, had a police officer calling me to see if I was involved in the fact that she was sure she was going to die. I acted like I knew nothing about it (and I didn't except I knew about the dealer). I said nothing about him. Another guy, who was a "friend" of my son's (and had been for years) went to his parents' house and told them he was a dead man. The father soon thereafter quit his job, and I don't know where they are. It was not good or fun. I am a prophetess, and I believe that God protects me. I know that He is with me because of a recent incident in my life--don't need to spend the time telling it now. He punishes those who attack me--the Bible says "Do my prophets no harm." God would have stopped them from attacking me. But my son stupidly went into the middle of them without the Lord's protection. He is now with the Lord, and I am left behind to suffer his loss which has been a tremendous loss to our family.

If your husband turns in the drug dealer (and if the dealer has power), it is reasonable that your husband could be dead. It is reasonable that you could die with him too if you are with him when they take him out--you know, leave no witnesses is their motto. And they have not even a single thought about not protecting themselves if they can take someone out that is threatening them, and they do pay back.

I can't tell you the pain I went through with all this. It was horrific!

This is what I would do:

1. Move out of your mother's house to protect her.
2. Get at least 30 minutes away so they don't end up at your mother's house with her as a witness (and dead).
3. Realize that your husband has to tell in order to save himself from prison, so he will tell. As soon as he tells, know they will pay him back either by killing or injuring him or you.
4. As soon as he tells, leave the apartment and disappear. Do not foolishly go to your mother's house. They will be watching for you there. Do not tell your husband where you are. He might turn you in to them to save his own life or they might think you know something (which you do). You might need to be taken out too.
5. Stay away for six months to see what is going to happen. If they kill him, you don't sound ready to go.
6. Tell him to go immediately to a gambler's group and a drug group where he can cneck in (or ask the courts to supply one for him).
7. If he successfully completes it, then bring him to another town (state preferably) where you can begin again.
8. Stay out of the area for at least two years. You might be safe visiting your mom, but I wouldn't do that for a while. Do not tell anyone where you are. You don't know how hard they might try to make you pay.
9. Never give anyone your whereabouts not even your husband until he gets his act together.


You love him and want to be with him. Are you willing to die with him?

I think not.

 

[1Prophetess]

Ask him to leave and get a restraining order if you are so led (by Jesus). Why divorce at this point?

Yes, get a restraining order if you leave. That way, you have a little more safety that you're not involved.

 

[1Prophetess]

I agree that people give up too easily in marriages when trouble strikes. That is why I have held on so long despite what others say.

The interesting thing is that I have been where you are--not in the exact same situation, but very similar. I could never throw the first stone. I'd probably have to step into the center and receive the first stone! So I would be the last to condemn you. I've done it all. There, but by the grace of God, go I.

However, God may not give you the right to divorce this man, but He definitely gives you the right to leave. And the right to leave is far greater when you or your mother or children or family are in danger. Although he has not been unfaithful during your marriage, he was. And if he was, he still may have been again. People don't much change. (Lord, open her eyes if he was so, if she should, she can leave the man.)

You sound like I've been in the past, ready to leave, wanting to leave, and not wanting to be without him (for whatever reason). This is what the Bible says--her desire shall be toward her husband. So your attitude is normal.

So your washing in and wishing out is very normal. But the question is: Do you really want to stay with this guy? Is he someone that provides for you? No, he is not. He is a taker, and he has taken you much farther than you should have allowed.

I am co-dependent like I think you are. You need counseling to get past this. It is really bad, and it causes you to do things that you know isn't in your best interest. It is okay to be this way as long as you know how to deal with it. But if you do not, then you will continue to attract these types of guys. And your life will go from mess to mess to mess.

If you leave (and I would tell you to do so if you can), then you need to get counseling and you need to tell him that you won't come back until he is well on the road to recovery. You both need help.

You know it. I don't know if he does, but if you know you need to change, and you don't, then you will end up back in the same place. That isn't a good one. I can tell you from my own experience.

If I told you my entire life, you'd shake your head and say, "She understands." But I don't have time to write 30 pages, and that might not be enough.

Know that the Lord can deliver you, help you, and get you out of this mess. Turn to Him. Do not date. Get your eyes and mind on the Lord. Don't even talk to men at all! You will get yourself into a 4th relationship that isn't good if you do. Aren't you tired of it? Aren't you tired of the continual pain when it comes to relationships with men? I was. That's why I got help.

You love this guy or you wouldn't still be with him. So turn to the Lord and see if the Lord will turn this guy around and fix your marriage. The Lord can do it!

I have recently gone to a prayer meeting with a woman who, both she and her husband were unfaithful, on drugs, and had all kinds of issues. She turned to God even though her husband was still a horrible mess and with another woman. God turned them around, their marriage around, and everything. They are still dealing with some issues, but they are in love again--and they were divorcing and separated for a while.

God can do anything. You take the first step. Let God do the rest.

 

[hijklmnop]

You should go to counseling regardless of whether your h wants to or not. You need help and clarity in this situation and you shouldn't wait on your h's participation to seek that out or you might never get it.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

You should go to counseling regardless of whether your h wants to or not. You need help and clarity in this situation and you shouldn't wait on your h's participation to seek that out or you might never get it.

Yes.

People go solo to counseling all the time to get guidance.

 

[Chaplain David]

I echo the go to counseling thing even if you go alone. It will be good for you, could encourage him, and ultimately help you make the decisions you must make and others that will come up as time goes on. God bless you.