Separated in the same house

[Million Pieces]

Just when I think we're making progress, or I'm making progress, he says something to destroy me again.

Last night we had another talk... oi I'm starting to dread these "talks". They're emotionally exhausting... and he stated firmly that he hadn't seen any improvement from me, in that I was still isolating from the family, hiding in my room and avoiding my domestic responsibilities. Granted, I did last night, I have been having a VERY hard few days.

Toward the end of the talk, he admitted something that has sucked the wind right out of me. I asked him if the vows he took on our wedding day mean anything at all to him, as a man of honour and integrity. He said, yes, they do. In fact, it's his honour to those vows that is keeping him here. I was encouraged until he immediately qualified that with "it's the guilt I'd feel if I broke them. If I could ever get around that guilt, I'd be gone in a moment."

I havne't been able to get that out of my head all day today. My head has been almost buzzing all day long. I feel like I'm in a daze.

 

[TexasSky]

Well yesterday's first attempt ended extraordinarily badly. Let's just say it was VERY badly received, he said it came out sounding more like sucking up than affirmation. *sigh* I can't even do THIS right.

He's out of town for the next 2 days, so it will be much harder. I thought of doing this either by email or by phone or IMs or something while he was gone, but I haven't heard almost a word from him today. He called briefly, to talk to the kids.

I knew it had to be too good of an idea for me to pull off.

You cannot undo years of hurt and pain in one day.
You cannot rebuild trust quickly, and fixing a marriage is a trust rebuilding experience even when there are not "obvious issues" like abuse or cheating.

Sit down, think about the reasons you first thought you were in love.
Think, sincerely, about the things you know make him unhappy and how you can try to change yourself.
Let him know what you do admire about him.
Let him know that you care enough about him, and about the marriage to try to meet him at least 1/2 way.

 

[captiveheart]

Just when I think we're making progress, or I'm making progress, he says something to destroy me again.

Last night we had another talk... oi I'm starting to dread these "talks". They're emotionally exhausting... and he stated firmly that he hadn't seen any improvement from me, in that I was still isolating from the family, hiding in my room and avoiding my domestic responsibilities. Granted, I did last night, I have been having a VERY hard few days.

Toward the end of the talk, he admitted something that has sucked the wind right out of me. I asked him if the vows he took on our wedding day mean anything at all to him, as a man of honour and integrity. He said, yes, they do. In fact, it's his honour to those vows that is keeping him here. I was encouraged until he immediately qualified that with "it's the guilt I'd feel if I broke them. If I could ever get around that guilt, I'd be gone in a moment."

I havne't been able to get that out of my head all day today. My head has been almost buzzing all day long. I feel like I'm in a daze.

I see how that sounded like, "I'm not here because I care about you, I'm here because I couldn't live with the guilt of breaking my promise". His motive for saying it I doubt is connected with what he really feels. He is angry and took a swipe at you. We all say things we regret when emotions are boiling. He is wounded and he wants to inflict a retaliatory wound. The important thing about a vow is sticking to it even when you don't feel like it. Keeping the vow to stay together is the biggest step. What needs to happen now is the toughest step, to begin to keep the other vows to love, honor and cherish...

 

[Million Pieces]

I think I'm either making things worse, and am driving him out, or I'm making him think harder about what he says. I think I'm finally making some points with him; I think I'm finally able to confront his control issues and rocked the boat a little. We've been having conversations in which I'm starting to recognize some of his statements that seem to contradict each other, or that point out his inflexibility, or his unwillingness to change HIMSELF instead of dictating to others. I asked him about a couple of them, and he was not happy about this, oh no he was not. He accused me of using his guilt against him, of picking and choosing words here and there to use against him. No, I'm hearing the words that contradict, as asking him to clarify, reconcile the discrepancies, or I'm challenging his wilfullness and defensiveness.

Then he threatens me with "dont back me into a corner, you might not like the reaction." I'm not sure how to take this, I know he's stinging and lashing back, I just don't know how far I can push it without him doing something really destructive.

 

[captiveheart]

Sounds like he's definitely in a defensive mode and few people, especially controlling ones, open up to see themselves when they are cornered. Do you think you are gaining anything of value from the tactics you are using? If you are throwing his contradictions at him you won't likely get as good a result as you would by asking him to help you understand what appears to be conflicting statements. The first method is confrontational and the second more collaborative and invites him to give a better explanation. He may actually be able to clear up a discrepancy and give you greater insight or he may be better able to admit he's not making sense to you and himself.

Examples: (maybe not the best but I think you may get the idea)

You say: "Sometimes you say this is fine and then you turn around and say it makes you crazy. Which is it?" (Implied here are statements such as You can't even make up your mind, which is it? You're not intelligent. There's something wrong with you not me. Your logic can't be trusted. You're the problem.) Puts him on the defense.

You say: "Sometimes you say this is fine and sometimes you say it makes you crazy. I'm probably misreading something here. Please, help me understand." (Implied here is I'm unclear, maybe there's something wrong with my ability to understand, maybe I missed something. Make it simple for me.) Much less threatening and more likely to keep the conversation civil.

 

[Million Pieces]

I see your reasoning. Thanks for the insight, I'll try to approach it better next time.

It's such a stupid game of words and manipulation between the two of us. No wonder we're in the state we're in. We're playing each other, and being just plain mean about it. At the same time, I want to hold on to something that I'm not even sure is worth it. Am I just holding on just for habit? For some ideal of not failing at marriage? For the security of someone to take care of me?

 

[captiveheart]

I made vows to my ex that I didn't keep. We divorced because we were both unhappy. I have always regretted not hanging in there and believing that God could heal us. I remember when we were separated I was not trying to find ways to get back together, I was looking for my next love. I think that once my mind got on that path, I was lost and my marriage was over.

 

[Million Pieces]

I guess I'm not willing to admit yet that it has to be over. This is what saddens me the most, is that HIS will (dh's, not God's) is going to completely run me over. This is where I'm most confused. DH wants me to grow a spine and start to make some decisions for ME, not about him, and yet all the decisions HE'S making affect me and my choices in response. Every response I could have has already been covered by his choices, I have nothing to negotiate with.

It comes down to, he's forcing me to think as a single, forcing my choices into HIS will, which is to be single and separate. And I don't like that, because that's not what MY heart wants.

I'm specifically lonely today, I crave so much the touch of affection of another human being. The feeling of someone breathing beside me. Someone welcoming me into their presence. The feeling that someone simply desires my company. He came up and gave me a hug, but there was absolutely no affection or softness in it. It might as well have been my neighbour.

Just for today, I'm really lonely for a human connection.

 

[Million Pieces]

Ack, I'm worrying myself sick tonight.

This past weekend he had 4 days off from work, so he decided on Monday to go away for the day. That wouldn't be so bad, but he went to a city an hour away where I KNOW he has some female online friends. He left a note before he left saying that he was going, and not to expect him back until very late. Well by "very late" he must have meant after 1 AM.

All day today (Tuesday) I've had in my head that he went to hook up with someone. Today when I saw him after work, I tried to very gently ask him about it, and he simply said, "of course not." and has refused to say another thing about it. I'm still paranoid about it, but when I mentioned my insecurity the second time, he just rolled his eyes and shook his head.

Thing is, I know there's little he could actually say or do to convince me one way or another, I'm going to believe whatever I talk myself into. I also know that he wouldn't just come out and tell me, "oh yeah, I met up with some lady and we shagged like teenagers", of course he's going to deny it. Given our circumstances right now, and how precarious it is, I just have myself convinced that is more possible than ever before.

Oh, I know I'm doing this to myself. I just need to let this horrible feeling pass.

Blah.

 

[captiveheart]

You're in a tough place for sure emotionally. You never know for sure what your spouse is doing when they are not with you. Before you started having trouble, what he was doing when not with you didn't concern you. Now that your relationship is damaged, you naturally believe that he is easy pickings. That some lonely woman out there will welcome him to her bed to "console" him. Of course this isn't a likely scenario but it is something you have difficulty pushing out of your mind.

I fight many similar battles these days in my own mind. It drives me to exhaustion. I simply want peace. I want my brain to just stop before I go insane. Sometimes I've just come to the point of exhaustion and given to the idea that, yeah it's possible, but if it has happened, or could happen I can do nothing about it. What I can control is my relationship with God. When my mind is tormented with these thoughts lately, I have learned to sing songs of worship in my head. The words fill my mind and drive out the tortuous thoughts. If my wife has an affair, gets a "haircut" at lunch or has another internet interlude I can be OK with just me and God. I've been there before and been very happy. I don't NEED my wife to make me happy. God has never betrayed me and He has always loved me no matter what.

 

[TexasSky]

Just when I think we're making progress, or I'm making progress, he says something to destroy me again.

Last night we had another talk... oi I'm starting to dread these "talks". They're emotionally exhausting... and he stated firmly that he hadn't seen any improvement from me, in that I was still isolating from the family, hiding in my room and avoiding my domestic responsibilities. Granted, I did last night, I have been having a VERY hard few days.

Toward the end of the talk, he admitted something that has sucked the wind right out of me. I asked him if the vows he took on our wedding day mean anything at all to him, as a man of honour and integrity. He said, yes, they do. In fact, it's his honour to those vows that is keeping him here. I was encouraged until he immediately qualified that with "it's the guilt I'd feel if I broke them. If I could ever get around that guilt, I'd be gone in a moment."

I havne't been able to get that out of my head all day today. My head has been almost buzzing all day long. I feel like I'm in a daze.

Didn't that vow include "love and cherish"?
Did it have conditions set into it then? Like, "do domestic work like a maid every day or the contract is broken?"

I shouldn't say this, but I can't help myself. Your husband is a total donkey!

 

[Million Pieces]

Actually TS, we're both as much to blame for the state we're in. I withdrew my affections from him a long time ago too, starting with a post partum depression that I don't think either of us recognized until it was far too late. It just became easier to allow him to do everything, to make all the big decisions then I can't be blamed if it fails, to be the grown up and have the responsibility. I admitted about 8 or so years ago that the only reason I married him was to get out of my parents' house, I was abused by my father as a young person. I'm still in those habits. I leave the chores to him; I'm a miserable housekeeper, he often ends up doing it; I don't even take initiative to help with the kids a great deal of the time.

He married me to "rescue" me. He took me on as a project, to teach me to be the adult I never learned to be under my parents. I do believe that at one point he truly did love me, and I don't know if I can point to a day that suddenly he didn't. He's a man of honesty, he has great integrity. He always has, up to now, he has never EVER given me a single day to even question his loyalty to me. It is this integrity that actually keeps him here, I think that says a lot.

So we both went into marriage for the wrong reasons, and now we're left wondering if we have to be held to a promise made under false pretenses. Makes me wonder, how would a Catholic look at that? Wouldn't that be acceptable grounds for an annulment?

 

[captiveheart]

Sometimes it sounds like you are working to keep things together and sometimes it sounds like you are looking for an exit. Under the circumstances that is normal. As I have read all of the posts I try to get an understand of your husband's personality and character. This most recent post kind of throws what I thought I knew into disarray.

You don't do housework, he mostly takes care of the kids. I realize now that he's very controlling, makes decisions for you and all, but I guess I assumed that your role as wife was more traditional. How did things work before the trouble began? What responsibilities did you take on? What responsibilities did he hold to himself? It's not unusual for marriages to go sideways if responsibilities are not shared or divided equitably.

 

[Million Pieces]

It just got worse.

I got an email he sent at midnight last night. He's decided to separate completely.

I need to go and process.

Please PLEASE pray. I might be gone for a while.

Thank you my friends, for your conern and your love. I will hold it always.

 

[captiveheart]

Father, you know what is at work in all of this and Lord you have a purpose, a destiny for MP and her husband. We all join to lift up our sister to you and all that is passing through her heart and mind at this moment. Lord we ask that you cause her to draw close to you and to seek refuge in your loving arms. Wherever her heart is at this moment lord, we pray that you reveal your love for her in an unmistakable way. Comfort her Lord, help her to sort her thoughts and surround her with the protection of your angels. Keep her unto you Lord forevermore.

 

[Million Pieces]

I just gotta get this out. THis is what has happened.

He sent me an email tuesday night, at about midnight, in which he told me that he doesn't want the marriage. He's done, he doesnt' want it. He had gone away for a day to a city about an hour away the day before, and met up with a "friend" for coffee. Of course in the email he tells me that she's just his BEST FRIEND, he has decided that she's his SOUL MATE, she's JUST LIKE HIM, she just LOOKS INTO HIS EYES and knows him, and that he kissed her and she kissed back, and she sat and held him while he poured out his soul. PUKE!

But to be perfectly honest, I saw it coming, for months. He's been stringing me along with "well, if we can each change the broken parts of us, maybe we can salvage something, and start to find the love again." That's crap. He's known for months that he's been done, and he's been messing with my head all this time.

Today I got back at him, and broke into the password on his laptop. It was TOO easy if you know how. Didn't take 10 minutes once I found out how. So ANYWAY, I go trollign through it for chatlogs, emails, pictures, anything to nail him to a wall. And I found it. OH YES, I found it. I found all his porn. I found his chatlogs, specifically the one with the woman he's been cybering with for over a year. The one he professes to be "in love" with, and gives her kisses, all his tender words, all his leery little looks. At one point it sounded like she was mad at him for something, and he was BEGGING HER to forgive him. Creep. Never once did he BEG me to forgive him for some insensitive thing he ever did to me. I don't think this is the same woman he went to see over the weekend, parts of that chat had to do with telling her where he lived, and comparing that with where she is. So he's been having at very least an emotional affair with TWO women documented, and I can probably name at least 3 more from his chat contact lists.

A family friend is a locksmith, and at first I asked him to come and re-key the house. He asked how many keys I needed, and I said 3, then he asked if hubby was getting one, and I lied and said of course. This friend wouldn't look too favourably on me locking my hubby out of the house. But if the guy happens to show up before hubby gets home from work, which should be any time in the next hour or two if he's not completely spineless, hey, how is that my fault?

What should I do next? I dont want to lift so much as a finger to help him, he can find his own new place, a lawyer if that's what he feels he needs, new bank, whatever. At one point he figured that if it ended (when...) that he would ask ME to leave, and he and the kids would stay here in the house. BWAHAHAHAHAHA. yeah, right. HIS choice to split the family, he does NOT get to try to be the hero now. No possible way. We will inevitably have to sell this house, and the kids and I will have to find something smaller, so he can afford to provide for both. Oh yes, he's paying for both households. That's not even negotiable.

Much MUCH more ranting to follow. Just had to get that out of my system.

That was a message I posted to a friend right when I first opened the email.

Later that same night he and I went for a drive, and had a LONG hard talk.


*sigh*

In this email (which in the conversation he admitted was NOT the best choice of modes of communication), he asked for 24 hours until I responded. Right when dinner ended I took him aside and said, "You and I are going for a drive tonight. You poked the bear. You're not getting 24 hours." So we went. And I told him he's not taking his cell phone, I was not going to sit there and listen to his text message alarm go off when his little thing on the side texted him all night long. To his eternal credit, he didn't get defensive about "there's no "thing on the side".", and he left the phone at home.

First off I addressed the cowardice of writing an email to address it. He agreed, it was cheap. Second, the fact that he glowed on and on about "her". That was the supreme insult. At least at that point. It got worse, but then it actually got better.

The worse is that he tells me that he BCC'ed that email to both a friend who has tried to be his counselor, whom I have SPECIFICALLY asked him not to get involved, AND THE LITTLE THING ON THE SIDE!! I nearly lost it.

So after about 2 hours talking, we negotiate an agreement of sorts. He's staying in the house for a few reasons. 1) because of my new job and the training period, 2) because of my ongoing counseling and 3) because financially, neither of us can maintain two households. But the intention is to eventually make the complete break, probably in the New Year or so. We need to stop poking each others' wounds. After venting my frustrations, yelling, crying, and basically sucker punching him, I calmed down and we agreed that this really is going to be the best. We can't even listen to each other, because we filter so much of what we hear through our hurting and suspicion.

So at this hour I'm calmer, more settled, still hurt like crazy, but more confident that things are gonna be okay. They really are.


So now I essentially have 3 months... well, to be precise, GOD has 3 months to turn this guy's heart around. This is where it's going to get REAL hard.

 

[Million Pieces]

Ugh, the more I read back on, and look carefully at what I have here, the more I wonder, why on earth am I so ATTACHED to this guy?? He's insensitive, disrespectful, selfish, a control freak, a selfish lover, emotionally repressed from me, unmotivated.... I can get very specific.

I KNOW I married him for the WRONG reasons, I KNOW he's not the kind of husband I want, I KNOW I won't be getting the deep love I deserve.

What am I THINKING??

 

[RobinRedbreast]

I've been there hun, except add neglect and abuse to the list of crazyness and then still had to ask myself why I was so attached to him. I didn't realize until I finally made the full break, that I wasn't REALLY attached to him at all. I was just scared of being NOT attached to him.

 

[Million Pieces]

You know, I think that's exactly what it is.

I've been attached to this man ALL of my adult life, I simply don't have an identity without him. That's what I need to develop first of all.

 

[DZoolander]

Actually TS, we're both as much to blame for the state we're in. I withdrew my affections from him a long time ago too, starting with a post partum depression that I don't think either of us recognized until it was far too late. It just became easier to allow him to do everything, to make all the big decisions then I can't be blamed if it fails, to be the grown up and have the responsibility. I admitted about 8 or so years ago that the only reason I married him was to get out of my parents' house, I was abused by my father as a young person. I'm still in those habits. I leave the chores to him; I'm a miserable housekeeper, he often ends up doing it; I don't even take initiative to help with the kids a great deal of the time.

He married me to "rescue" me. He took me on as a project, to teach me to be the adult I never learned to be under my parents. I do believe that at one point he truly did love me, and I don't know if I can point to a day that suddenly he didn't. He's a man of honesty, he has great integrity. He always has, up to now, he has never EVER given me a single day to even question his loyalty to me. It is this integrity that actually keeps him here, I think that says a lot.

So we both went into marriage for the wrong reasons, and now we're left wondering if we have to be held to a promise made under false pretenses. Makes me wonder, how would a Catholic look at that? Wouldn't that be acceptable grounds for an annulment?

I'm not a Catholic - but when I was married the first time it was in a Catholic church. When I divorced her - I also petitioned for an annulment and was granted one from the Catholic church.

Based upon my experience - ehhh - I'm not sure if you'd be granted one. As I recall - there has to be an aspect of it where there was an intent to defraud (well, maybe not defraud, but definitely misleading going on). Misunderstanding your motivations at the time and finding later that they were in error wouldn't fit their test - at least in my estimation.

Then again - who really cares...lol I only went for the annulment in the off chance that whoever I met in the future might be a Catholic and I didn't want to have to address that issue under those circumstances.