Sending social security to Mexico?

[admtaylor]

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/1210mexbenefits10.html

Let's hope this doesn't pass. I don't know about the rest of you but those of us that are legal US citizens aren't even gauranteed that we'll see the money we put in.

 

[alonesoldier]

Thats the most idiotic plan I have ever seen and I thought I had seen them all. Lock em out, put the Army on the border. Don't pay them.

 

[watt]

yeah screw mexicans especially the ones that become citizens get jobs work just as hard as you and i and pay taxes they dont deserve that money back.

 

[watt]

even bush is for it!

The Bush administration supports such an accord as a way to improve U.S.-Mexican relations.

 

[Force]

yes this would be stupid! Too bad so sad, your not a citizen you dont get our benefits. This is not Mexico it is the USofA people.

 

[HumbleMan]

If they're here illegally, we shouldn't be obligated to them in any way. If they come here and apply for and receive citizenship (legal resident status) and contribute to Social Security, and are productive members of society, then let them collect benefits like every one else.

put the Army on the border

Put a heavily armed force on the border to enforce conflicting laws, all the while having no law enforcement experience or training? That's scary. Makes me happy we have the Posse Commitatus Act. If congress would get it's act together and FUND the agencies tasked with this, they might be more effective. Instead, they created an entirely new department, threw untold amounts of money at, and they still, two years later, can't get their act together.

 

[rock4christ]

This is crazy. We might as well annex Mexico while we're at it.

 

[alonesoldier]

"yeah screw mexicans especially the ones that become citizens get jobs work just as hard as you and i and pay taxes they dont deserve that money back".



Watt, I'm third generation Mexican American on my Fathers side. This isn't about kicking citizens out of the country because of race. It is about closing off our borders because of terrorism and drug trafficking. It is about asking people to sign the book when the come in so that we know who they are. It’s about not sending social security checks to another country when the system itself is on the verge of bankruptcy anyway.

 

[d0c markus]

our border system is a joke... but so is our country. start repelling the border jumpers with force, i know a local movie theater for a fact has illeagal immigrants working late night clean up, considering i know 15 unemployed people desperatly needing a job i am half inclined to call someone.

I love all people but there is a right and wrong way to go about, every immigrant who's legal, give them the benifts, everyone whose not. give them a number of the local immigration office

 

[watt]

i'm not saying illegals are a good thing i am saying that the naturalized citizens from mexico deserve the social security money they paid into with their pay checks. its in the article provided.

 

[admtaylor]

i'm not saying illegals are a good thing i am saying that the naturalized citizens from mexico deserve the social security money they paid into with their pay checks. its in the article provided.

Actually if I remember correctly it was talking about illegal's that are paying taxes. In my opinion if you don't go through the legal process to get here you can consider the taxes as payment to live here. Why don't we improve relations when they get a handle on the waves of illegals that come across our border.

 

[watt]

the article does not specify

 

[Silvio Dante]

Close off the Border to the Mexican Terrorists? Classic.... Fact is you do have a moral duty of care to those residing within your borders. In Ireland and indeed the rest of Europe we pay Illegals a small benefit so that they can feed and clothe their families.

Some or us over here call it being Christian....

 

[JillLars]

i know a local movie theater for a fact has illeagal immigrants working late night clean up

So who's the real problem here, the illegal immigrant workers or the movie theatre that is willing to hire them and pay them unlivable wages, rather than paying legal citizens minimum wage? I think we need take a broader look at the problem of illegal immigration before we start saying "send them all away".

 

[alonesoldier]

Race has nothing to do with it, it's the border, a place of entry for anyone. Not to mention 70% of narcotics in this country.

 

[alonesoldier]

Part of an essay I wrote a while back.



. According to William King, the former Chief of the U.S border PatrolAcademy “We are loosing our sovereignty. We can’t control our borders.” (Baldauf 3). It is my contention that due to the rise in border violence, the increase in drug trade, terrorism and the economy that the United States Military should be assisting the Border Patrol along the U.S-Mexican border from Brownsville, Texas to San Diego, California. Although loose ends would still remain and this is not a cure all to the problems mentioned above, it would be an important first step to solving these problems and making a significant impact.

The War on drugs is expensive, upward spending of 30 billion taxpayer dollars to not be too exact. 10 million American citizens are addicts, 70% of all street crime is drug related and 70% of all child abuse committed in this country steams from substances abusers (O’Reilly 128). And 70% of cocaine entering the United States now does so though the southwest border (Davidson 406). More than 300 tons of cocaine comes though the Mexican border and untold amounts of other substances (Baldauf 3). A 300 ton decrease in narcotics and cutting the importation of illegal drugs by 70% would be dramatic to say the least. In the late 90’s congress tried to do all this by doubling the Border Patrol without results (Baldauf 3). No results but one that is. By 1998, 79 Border Patrol Officers had been murdered in the line of duty, which is more than any other federal agency (Baldauf 3). Both border violence and the drug trade were on the rise. Soldiers can help. Having Soldiers on the border would drastically cut this problem down to size over night.

On September 11th 2001 Americans witnessed the worst terrorist attack in our history. As previously stated, tightening the U.S-Mexican border is not an all encompassing solution. In this particular case it would have done nothing at all. 17 of the 19 terrorist entered our country legally though other ports and 2 came from Canada. My point in brining this up is that even if the INS had better screening methods for immigrants all of these terrorist could have still entered this country through the Mexican border. The existence of 3 million undocumented workers proves that. And in response to 9-11 all immigration and naturalization laws are now under review. So hopefully in the near future, a member of a terrorist organization will not be able to enter this country legally. This is very important but then what? Where there is a will there is a way as two of the 9-11 hijackers proved at the Canadian border, there are still ways in. One major way in is the Mexican border to our south. The State Departments coordinator for counter terrorism discussed this problem with congress in the aftermath of September 11th 2001. In regards to the city of Ciudad del Este (where Brazil, Paraguay and Argentina meet), Francis X. Taylor said a “long-standing presence of Islamic extremist organizations, primarily Hezbollah and, to a lesser extent, the Sunni extremist groups Gamaa i-Islamiya and Hamas. These organizations engage in document forgery, money laundering, contraband smuggling, and weapons and drug trafficking” (Ceaser 1). U.S authorities have 46 banks accounts in Paraguay frozen for examinations to ascertain whether the area has become a financing center for Islamic terrorism (Ceaser 1). If the Al Queda terrorist group has cells in South America it is important that they not slip though our porous southern border. Opponents say that very few terrorists are of Latin decent (Nagengast 3). I say it doesn’t matter what race they are, that border is still a place of entry and all though history Soldiers have been responsible for protecting a given nation’s borders.

Economically speaking, immigration has always historically been a good thing. People who want to come here legally and pay their taxes and build something have always been welcomed. With illegal immigration we do not have these qualities. It’s a well-known fact that illegal immigrants in places like California collect the benefits of various social programs paid for by taxpayers without ever contributing any money themselves. And in the last 10 years the trend among the illegal populations has not been to come here and work. This according to a Mr.Dornbusch a Border Patrol agent who retired in 1998 after 31 years of service: “(I) Long for the days when a typical illegal immigrant was a ‘Guanajuato Joe’ just a friendly middle-aged guy coming for work…now more and more come from Mexico City, they’ve got tattoos, and their not just here to work. They steal cars, they sell dope, and they carry guns” (Baldauf 3). This is a sentiment which I have noticed is carried even by 2nd generation Mexican American citizens in this country like my family. Illegal immigration is a burden on our economy. Placing Soldiers on the U.S-Mexico border would greatly decrease the number of illegal aliens in this country. For those legitimately seeking work, a guest worker program would be a far superior method of obtaining goods and services than border jumping. Taxes would be paid and more importantly an inventory of who is in the country could be accomplished.

So what is the solution? I believe that the United States military is the best solution to the problem. Border Patrol Agents are still needed, INS reform is still needed, inspection of all NAFTA trucks is still needed, a National ID Card is still needed and a Guest Worker Program is still needed. But it is my belief that placing soldiers on the border would immediately and drastically cut back on the biggest problem areas. Violence on the border would drop. The drug trade would be dealt a deathblow. Terrorist would have a much harder time getting into this country. And it would help the economy by not only cutting back on illegal immigration which devours tax dollars but by reallocating some of that 30 billion dollars that is being spent on the Drug War right now in ways that would actually help Americans. The idea of using the military to guard and protect our borders is not a young idea. It in fact has its roots in the Constitution, Article 4, and section 4, which requires the Federal Government to protect us from invasion (O’Reilly 140). However the 1887 Posse Comitatus Act does make it illegal for the military to be used in civilian law, which was intended to end the Army involvement in the over sight of the Reconstruction-era. But they may be used in a supportive manner; the National Guard for example as it pertains to helping the civil authorities in times of crisis (airport security) is not restricted by this Act (Davidson 4).

Beginning in 1990 until 1997 the United States Military did play a supportive role in Border Patrolling at our Southern border. 157 missions’ per-year from 1990 to 1997 which involved the use of military ground forces were collaborating with the Border Patrol (Dunn 8). They were providing logistical support like radar surveillance, mechanical repair and road building that gave the Border Patrol the opportunity to spend more time on illegal crossings (Baldauf 3). One Military Unit in El Paso in the spring of 1997 led to the arrest of 620 undocumented immigrants and 1500 pounds of marijuana (Dunn 6). This one border town being helped for only one season is a far cry from the complete militarizing of the border that I am calling for, but things were on their way. But everything came to a halt in May of 1997 when Ezequiel Hernandes, an 18 year old American citizen of Hispanic decent was shot and killed by U.S Marines in Redford, Texas. The media quickly distorted the story into a open and shut case of murder. Public outrage following this tragedy led to the removal of combat-ready troops from the border (Nagengast 2). What actually occurred is that at 6 a.m that morning Hernandes was herding goats, he had on him a shot gun which he used to warn off predators. He fired twice unknowingly into the general direction of the Marines who were down range. The Marines were radioed to follow the Rules of Engagement, which allow for soldiers to fire in self-defense and in defense of a third party (Dunn 7). He fired a third time and the Marines shot him. As a Soldier myself it’s my opinion that these Marines handled this situations very poorly. But I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, that they did not go out that morning wanting to kill an American citizen because of race. But this is something that can be corrected though better training of civilian surroundings, not by a removal of their presence. This tragedy particularly hits home to me because I am a Hispanic male from Texas about the same age as Hernanandez. But the good of having soldiers patrolling the border for both American citizens and Mexican citizens far outweighs this one isolated event. This was a terrible occurrence, but I believe that with the lessons learned form it that more lives would be saved in the long run if troops were re-deployed to the area. Others say that the answer is making border crossing less attractive by strengthening the 3rd world Mexican economy. I say that is exactly what NAFTA is doing, but it won’t fix the problem this century (Becker 2). I look forward to the day when Mexico is as open as Canada, but I am realistic enough to see that is not possible in my life time.

This has nothing to do with race, as it stands right now the border is a threat to this countries National Security. Why do I bring up race? Because Arizona Senator John McCain pointed out the real problem with placing troops on the border in a recent interview, “there are many Hispanic citizens of the state of Arizona who are proud of their culture and I’m not sure they would agree with you” (O’Reilly 139). That’s the real reason why something as common sense as guarding our borders is controversial in the first place. As it pertains to Arizona, 22 pounds of heroin, 4780 pounds of cocaine and 175,000 pounds of marijuana were seized at the Arizona, Mexican border in the year 2000 (O’Reilly 140). For those attempting to make this a racial issue I firmly believe that had those drugs passed though the border they would have gone to the same neighborhoods where all the other drugs that made it though went, which incidentally are nowhere near Senator McCain’s home of residence. Furthermore in the same year, 106 would be illegal aliens died of heat exhaustion while trying to cross the border to Arizona, their bodies were found mummified out in the desert (O’Reilly 138). Wouldn’t it be in Mexico’s best interest also if we could prevent these from happening?

In conclusion, because of the increase in the drug trade, border violence, terrorism and the economy it would be in America’s best interest to deploy soldiers from Brownsville, Texas to San Diego, California, to support Border Patrol agents. Desperate times call for desperate measures and insuring our survival is more important than political correctness.

Work Cited






​

O’Reilly, Bill. The No Spin Zone: Confrontations with the Powerful and Famous in

America. New York: Random House 2001.



Davidson, M. “Militarizing the Mexican border.” Nation 1 April 1991: 406-412



Becker, Gary. “Mexican Immigration: Don’t Open the Gates Wide Yet” Business Week 23 October 2000: 34-37



Baldauf, Scott. “Texas Shootings Show Perils of Border Patrol” Christian Science Monitor 9 July 1998: 3-6



Nagengast, Carol. “Militarizing the Border.” NCLA Report on the America’s Nov/Dec 1998: 37-44



Dunn, Timothy. “Military Collaboration with the Border patrol in the U.S-Mexico Border Region” Journal of Political and Military Sociology Winter 1999: 257-267



Ceasar, Mike. “Terrorist link to Paraguayan border town Congress told extremist groups in area” San Francisco Chronicle 1 Nov 2001: A3

 

[admtaylor]

Close off the Border to the Mexican Terrorists? Classic.... Fact is you do have a moral duty of care to those residing within your borders. In Ireland and indeed the rest of Europe we pay Illegals a small benefit so that they can feed and clothe their families.

Some or us over here call it being Christian....

They do get benefits, a wide range of them. Especially in California. We're talking about retirement money here. Well, disability as well, but mainly retirement. The system is in such a shambles right now that my parents will be pulling off of my generations money and there probably won't be a lot left after they're done. I frankly hold taking care of my wife and myself (you know my family) as a higher priority than taking care of someone who has broken the law to live and work here. The immigrants, legal and illegal, around here (and there are a suprisingly huge amount of them here in the midwest) do just as well financially as I do, most of them anyway. The rest are very aware of the services available to them to clothe and feed their families.

 

[JillLars]

now more and more come from Mexico City, they’ve got tattoos, and their not just here to work. They steal cars, they sell dope, and they carry guns” (Baldauf 3). This is a sentiment which I have noticed is carried even by 2nd generation Mexican

*bangs head on desk* You have got to be kidding me, the problems this source cites are problems in every inner city in america, and they are not just the result of immigrants from mexico. The problem of crime in the inner city goes far far beyond immigration issues. I highly suggest the book "Getting Paid" by Mercer Sullivan, its a very interesting ethnographic study into inner city crime, including study of one group of immigrants from puerto rico.

 

[Silvio Dante]

They do get benefits, a wide range of them. Especially in California. We're talking about retirement money here. Well, disability as well, but mainly retirement. The system is in such a shambles right now that my parents will be pulling off of my generations money and there probably won't be a lot left after they're done. I frankly hold taking care of my wife and myself (you know my family) as a higher priority than taking care of someone who has broken the law to live and work here. The immigrants, legal and illegal, around here (and there are a suprisingly huge amount of them here in the midwest) do just as well financially as I do, most of them anyway. The rest are very aware of the services available to them to clothe and feed their families.

So what you're saying is that when an illegal immigrant becomes too old to work he/she shouldn't get retirement benefits...?

 

[JillLars]

I apologize if I was harsh alonesoldier, your essay is very well written, my criticism is of the source's reasons for viewing mexican immigrants negatively.