Self-Torment - Part 2 (Revised)

[Neo]

Originally posted by bartleby
on a similar topic to Neo's i'm not sure how meaningful it is to say that God is "outside space and time" because 'outside space' implies a spatial relationship which would be impossible for something that wasn't in space in the first place.

on a topic identical to Neo's i think the only way you can maintain that God exists 'outside time' is if you conceive that for him everything he has ever done and ever will do was performed simulataneously though from our perspective it seems to occur sequentially. if it appeared to god that he thought one thought before another then he must exist in time. besides if he exists outside of time this would make various of God's actions as reported quite senseless and would also mean quite literally that god did not exist before the creation of time and space, which would then force the question "what made God come into existence?"

hope this helps
bb

The concept of time still applies to God. He created, then he stopped creating.

 

[LouisBooth]

"The concept of time still applies to God. He created, then he stopped creating."
Noooo..those are his actions, not him. He works through time yes, but it not bound to work through it or be in it.

 

[The Simpleton]

LouisBooth, you wrote...



He (God) works through time yes, but is not bound to work through it or be in it.

Stormy expressed this point of view eloquently in the part 1 thread that sOuljah started called "Self Torment".

Stormy wrote…

Time is not one dimensional to God as it is to us. He can see it all at a single glance. It is all out there. He can see our actions before we take them.


Basically, the Holy Spirit taught me these things a long time ago. I have tried to express this to others on several occasions but though I think I understand what the Holy Spirit has taught me, I have found that I am rather hopeless at expressing some of what that Holy Spirit reveals to me. It is refreshing to read this point of view expressed by others. It validates what I already knew. In general Christian Forums has been good for that (validating things that God had already whispered into my ear). I do have a question though for Stormy, LouisBooth or anyone else who shares their point of view on this subject.

My question is, can anyone back up this point of view using scripture? I think I can but I curious to see how others might do it.

 

[LouisBooth]

"I think I can but I curious to see how others might do it."

How God is transendant of time? I'd point you to verses talking about his omnipotence.

 

[Neo]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"The concept of time still applies to God. He created, then he stopped creating."
Noooo..those are his actions, not him. He works through time yes, but it not bound to work through it or be in it.

Time isn’t something that you work ‘through’, or something which you can exist in and out of.. it’s just a concept of the passage of events. Are you getting this? I hate having to repeat myself...

 

[LouisBooth]

"Time isn’t something that you work ‘through’, or something which you can exist in and out of.. it’s just a concept of the passage of events. Are you getting this? I hate having to repeat myself... "

I'd disagree. a sphere doesn't have to be in a certain 2D space..but it can pass through it and "work" through it. You're wrong neo, on this point. God works through it and is transendant of it.

 

[cb]

If God only exists within space and time, how is He able to prophecy what will happen in the future, as demontsrated abundantly in scripture?

 

[cb]

sorry...accident.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by cb
If God only exists within space and time, how is He able to prophecy what will happen in the future, as demontsrated abundantly in scripture?

By entering our space/time based Universe.

 

[Neo]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
"Time isn’t something that you work ‘through’, or something which you can exist in and out of.. it’s just a concept of the passage of events. Are you getting this? I hate having to repeat myself... "

I'd disagree.

You seem to think that time exists objectively, and that you can move in and out of it. If time is not just a concept, then what is it? Define time.

 

[Neo]

s0uljah, maybe you could answer my question? If time isn't just a concept, then what is it exactly?

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

A property of space. Without space, there is no time...at least nothing that we can think about with our finite minds.

 

[Neo]

Originally posted by s0uljah
A property of space.

Could you elaborate on that? Define time and space objectively, if they aren't just subjective concepts as I said they are.

Btw, if time is a property of space, then time applies to God, because God is omnipresent, therefore he occupies space.

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Neo-

I already know that you think the Universe is infinite and eternal. (Even though that has no solid scientific basis and most of the scientific community disagrees with you.

I have also heard your arguement that God is omnipresent and what you think that implies.

Therefore, I am not feeling inspired to respond, again. Sorry.