Self gratification

[RadMan]

Is baiting a hook self gratifying?

OK--this is really a dumb subject. People do it. They aren't going to admit to it in a public forum. They feel sin over it like any other sin and they try not to do it to often but they still fail. The problem arises, no pun intended, when they don't feel guilt anymore about it. Too much sin can cause hardening of the heart and loss of salvation.

Anyway mom said that I would go blind to. So I just did it till I needed reading glasses.




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[Breetai]

Anyway mom said that I would go blind to. So I just did it till I needed reading glasses.

I think that was funny.

 

[Radiata]

Here, I'll quote "Every young man's battle."

When masturbation is a sin, it's not an end of the world kind of sin that should drive a guy into deeper isolation,. I know of young men and woman who aren't involved with church because they are involved with masturbation. They were told this is the worst and most horrible thing they could do, so when it happens, they feel like total outcasts from God. It is never good to drive young people fro the church. If this act is done in a sinful way, it's not something that should elicit deep shame. It is not rare, and most have tried it at some point. They just don't admit it or talk about.......

They find that they can handle stress differently. When they go without masturbating for a month, they feel so clean and good about themselves.


But keep in mind what David ______ says about "clean masturbation".

"Let me say this: it is possible to touch with a clean mind and eyes, because I've done it. I have to tell you, however, that it really takes a long time without visual stimulation or fantasizing-even if I'm trying to get it over with quick. It's sometimes so demoralizing that I'll just stop. That isn't good because then my motor is riding the red line, and then the mind gets really difficult to control. and I drop back into sin.
Even when I can do it with a clean mind, there's something else that makes me doubtful about the practice. For the past few months I've been into doing what I call "practicing the presence of God," living in continuous prayer and trying to go through my day talking to God and praising Him. When I touch, even with a clean mind, that connection with God clearly gets messed up. It's still there, and I can still talk to God, but I have this weird sense that even if it's not a sin, then it really isn't pure, either."

Intimacy with God is our whole reason for fighting the battle isn't it? If it messes us the intimacy, why do it? Besides, even if "Clear-minded" masturbation isn't a sin technically,. we still sense a bondage in the whole matter, and God hates bondage in His people. Paul says in I Cor (6:12) that we must not be mastered by anything. On those grounds, all forms of masturbation seem suspect.

 

[Radiata]

Here, I'll quote "Every young man's battle."

When masturbation is a sin, it's not an end of the world knd of sin that should drive a guy into deeper isolation,. I know of oung men and woman who aren't involved with church beause they are involved with masturbation. They were told this is the worst and most horrible thing they could do, so when it happens, they feel like total outcasts from God. It is never good to drive young people fro the church. If this act is done in a sinful way, it's not something that should elicit deep shame. It is not rare, and most have tried it at some point. They just don't admit it or taldk about.......

They find that they can handle stress differently. When they go without masturbating for a month, they feel so clean and good about themselves.


But keep in mind what David ___ says about "clean masturbation".

"Let me say this: it is possible to touch with a clean mind and eyes, because I've done it. I have to tell you, however, that it really takes a long time without visual stimulation or fantasizing-even if I'm tryihng to get it over with quick. It's sometimes so demoralizing that I'll just stop. That isn't good becusee then my motor is riding the red line, and then the mind gets really difficult to control. and I drop back into sin.

 

[Breetai]

I know of young men and woman who aren't involved with church because they are involved with masturbation.

Do you know if the author meant that these people were too busy engaging in "self gratification" to go to church, if they felt too guilty about their sin to go to church, or if the church members/pastor actually told them not to come to church until they stopped this action? If they were actually told not to come because of their sin, I think that is absolutely saddening.

I read of an instance, I think in the other thread on the topic, where a young man and his girlfriend were getting quite physical in one occasion. In order to avoid the temptation to go further into physical sin with his girlfriend, he excused himself to the toilet and "relieved" himself.

Even though some would argue that he sinned by masturbating, I think he made the correct decision here. One might even consider this a case where this action could be considered acceptable.

Intimacy with God is our whole reason for fighting the battle isn't it? If it messes us the intimacy, why do it? Besides, even if "Clear-minded" masturbation isn't a sin technically,. we still sense a bondage in the whole matter, and God hates bondage in His people. Paul says in I Cor (6:12) that we must not be mastered by anything. On those grounds, all forms of masturbation seem suspect.

Radiata, thanks for posting this quote. I've never read the book you're referring to, but I think what the author says here is quite brilliant.

 

[Radiata]

Do you know if the author meant that these people were too busy engaging in "self gratification" to go to church, if they felt too guilty about their sin to go to church, or if the church members/pastor actually told them not to come to church until they stopped this action? If they were actually told not to come because of their sin, I think that is absolutely saddening.

Just to answer your question, I said it in the following sentences in my last post.

"They were told this is the worst and most horrible thing they could do, so when it happens, they feel like total outcasts from God. It is never good to drive young people fro the church."


If you want, I can post some more from him. It really is a great book, and it is so blunt and to the point which helps. Here is what is written on the back.

"How can any young man remain pure in the real world of sexual temptation?

In this world you're surrounded by sexual images that open the door to temptation. They're everywhere-on TV, billboards, magazines, music, the internet-and so easy to access that it sometimes feels impossible to escape their cluthes. Yet God expects His children to be sexually pure.
So how can you survive the relentless battle against temptation? Here's powerful ammunition.
Stephen Arterburn and Fred Stoeker, the authors of the hard-hitting best-seller Every Man's Battle, now focus on the temptations young single Christian men like you face every day-and they offer workable, biblical strategies for achieving sexual purity.
The authors examine the standard of Ephesians 5:3-"there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality"-in a positive and sensitive light. And they explain how an authentic, vibrant relationship with Jesus Christ is the key to victory over temptation.
Every Young Man's Battle will show you how to train your eyes and your mind, how to clean up your thought life, and how to develop a realistic battle plan for remaining pure in today's sexually soaked culture. As a result, you'll experience hope-real hope-for living a strong, pure life God's way."


I think the best thing this book has taught me is how to bounce my eyes. Every time something sexual comes before me, my eyes automatically bounce away and my thoughts go toward something else.



And just as an afterthought, I think when we talk about distinguishing lust and affection, and when we cross the line from "Gosh that woman is good looking" to "I wouldn't mind &$^#^*^$*^%$^#^*$*^%$*$^#*^%$(censured)", the line has to be when you get to the point where epinephrine is released into the body. That's the cut off point. When that happens, you have sinned.