Self-defense? SDA views

[Your Neighbor]

Would it have been wrong for a Virginia Tech student who may have had a concealed weapon to shoot the mass-murderer Seung-hui Cho as he continued to kill...or not?

 

[Adventist Dissident]

i don't thing self-defence is ever wrong. you have a God given right to live

 

[DrStupid_Ben]

i don't thing self-defence is ever wrong. you have a God given right to live

Does that translate into a God given right to take someone elses life? What about their God given right to live?

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Does that translate into a God given right to take someone elses life? What about their God given right to live?

if they are trying to take yours yes. thou shalt not kill applys to the perpatratior. I believe the scriptures allow for self defence.

 

[truthisholy]

absolutely not.

 

[truthisholy]

Does that translate into a God given right to take someone elses life? What about their God given right to live?

they gave that up when they chose to kill.

 

[Dasdream]

Actually scripture says nothing about defending themselves. remember "Turn the other cheeck"

I will be back with more, i am having a bad internet connection signal right now

 

[Your Neighbor]

Actually scripture says nothing about defending themselves.

Stay awhile. You might learn something.

 

[Your Neighbor]

Exodus 22: 2 "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed;


Luke 11:21"When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are safe."


Luke 22:36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.

 

[woobadooba]

Would it have been wrong for a Virginia Tech student who may have had a concealed weapon to shoot the mass-murderer Seung-hui Cho as he continued to kill...or not?

You don't necessarily have to kill in order to stop someone from killing.

Whatever means are necessary to prevent one from taking the life of another must be weighed responsibly.

Perhaps if one had a gun he could have shot the killer in the leg, so as to put him in a state wherein he wouldn't be as great a threat to others.

Of course, it's too late now. Therefore, there is no need to entertain hypothetical notions.

 

[reddogs]

When we are young we easily cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war and death, but as we get older and wiser we learn to rely less on Smith & Wesson, & more on God........

 

[woobadooba]

When we are young we easily cry havoc and let loose the dogs of war and death, but as we get older and wiser we learn to rely less on Smith & Wesson, & more on God........

Do you think that none of those who were murdered believed in God?

And do you also think police officers should just get on their knees and pray rather than attempt to stop murderers with whatever means are necessary?

It's not a matter of immaturity to stop evil, but an act of love.

It is important to note that in the end the Lord Himself will destroy the wicked. So to accuse those who defend themselves or others against criminals of being immature in the faith, makes no sense at all.

It's one thing to retaliate when someone insults you. It's something entirely different to defend your family, or even yourself for that matter, when someone is attempting to violate you physically, or to take your life.

 

[OntheDL]

I don't believe Jesus taught us to use violence against violence.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Matthew 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

When the children of Israel were obedient to will of God, God delivered them against the persuing Egyptian army, torned down the wall of Jericho. Not one sword was drawn, not one arrow was shot.

But when they backslided, rejected the Lord repeatedly and went to Baal worship, God raised up heathen kings against them. The Israelites' own swords could not deliver them.

If we belong to the Lord (living a consecrated life), evil can not lay its hand on us without going through the Lord first. We have nothing to worry.

"As the saints left the cities and villages, they were pursued by the wicked, who sought to slay them. But
the swords that were raised to kill God's people broke and fell as powerless as a straw. Angels of God shielded the saints. As they cried day and night for deliverance, their cry came up before the Lord. {EW 284}

 

[TrustAndObey]

This has always been a toughie for me.

I don't believe in violence or killing another human being, but I can't, with all certainty, tell you what I would do if I were standing between a gunman and my children. Anyone's children for that matter.

Adrenalin kicks in more than common sense does when you're in a scary situation, and I can't run like I used to.

 

[woobadooba]

I don't believe Jesus taught us to use violence against violence.

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Matthew 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

When the children of Israel were obedient to will of God, God delivered them against the persuing Egyptian army, torned down the wall of Jericho. Not one sword was drawn, not one arrow was shot.

But when they backslided, rejected the Lord repeatedly and went to Baal worship, God raised up heathen kings against them. The Israelites' own swords could not deliver them.

If we belong to the Lord (living a consecrated life), evil can not lay its hand on us without going through the Lord first. We have nothing to worry.

"As the saints left the cities and villages, they were pursued by the wicked, who sought to slay them. But
the swords that were raised to kill God's people broke and fell as powerless as a straw. Angels of God shielded the saints. As they cried day and night for deliverance, their cry came up before the Lord. {EW 284}

Your argument is severely flawed.

What you are in essence saying is that anyone who has not been protected from a criminal act was not delivered by God because he/she was living in disobedience to God.

So what do you say about little children who are raped, tortured and brutally murdered by psychos?

Would you dare say God didn't protect them because they were living in disobedience to Him? For that matter, do you believe we all have a guardian angel? If so, where were the angels that were supposed to be guarding little children who have been violated in this way? Were they just sitting there doing nothing? This is something that greatly disturbs me, something that I would like an answer for. But I don't see that any human being is going to be able to answer this question for me.

You must understand that when you use such arguments this is the kind of response you are going to get. A response that you could never really give a straight answer to.

 

[TrustAndObey]

Wooba, this might be a little off-topic, but do you believe that we all have a "time" no matter what?

Like when Christ said it was not yet His time. Do all of us have a preset "time" (I'm just asking your opinion on this one brother).

I've escaped death a couple of times and I always wonder if it was because it wasn't my predetermined "time" or if there was a lesson to be learned each time.

TrustAndObey <--brain tumor survivor (PRAISE GOD!)

 

[woobadooba]

Wooba, this might be a little off-topic, but do you believe that we all have a "time" no matter what?

Like when Christ said it was not yet His time. Do all of us have a preset "time" (I'm just asking your opinion on this one brother).

I've escaped death a couple of times and I always wonder if it was because it wasn't my predetermined "time" or if there was a lesson to be learned each time.

TrustAndObey <--brain tumor survivor (PRAISE GOD!)

Only in the sense that God knows the end from the beginning. Meaning He knows the time when someone will die.

However, I don't believe God predetermines when people will die. We must keep in mind that God never intended that any part of His creation would die, but that it would live forever. People die as a result of the nature of sin, but not because God wanted it to be that way.

By the way, I am happy to know that God saved you from cancer

 

[TrustAndObey]

Only in the sense that God knows the end from the beginning. Meaning He knows the time when someone will die.

However, I don't believe God predetermines when people will die. We must keep in mind that God never intended that any part of His creation would die, but that it would live forever. People die as a result of the nature of sin, but not because God wanted it to be that way.

By the way, I am happy to know that God saved you from cancer

It wasn't cancer, it was benign (but I still wasn't expected to make it).

I've always felt like God does predetermine when we'll die and when I was reading the Bible I tried to look for support either way, and I don't remember seeing it.

I know we're never guaranteed tomorrow.

If I knew for sure that God predetermined our deaths, it would be a lot easier not to fight back against an attacker, ya know? Then again, if it is my time, it's my time no matter what I do.

This really is a toughie for me.

 

[OntheDL]

Your argument is severely flawed.

What you are in essence saying is that anyone who has not been protected from a criminal act was not delivered by God because he/she was living in disobedience to God.

So what do you say about little children who are raped, tortured and brutally murdered by psychos?

Would you dare say God didn't protect them because they were living in disobedience to Him? For that matter, do you believe we all have a guardian angel? If so, where were the angels that were supposed to be guarding little children who have been violated in this way? Were they just sitting there doing nothing? This is something that greatly disturbs me, something that I would like an answer for. But I don't see that any human being is going to be able to answer this question for me.

Not at all. Isaiah was cut in half while doing God' work. All the apostles were persecuted and killed. It's God's will. You and I don't understand it. But Paul said "...to die is gain" Philippians 1:21. When we are obedient, Satan can not touch us without going through God first. And whatever come from God is good for us eventhough we might agree or understand it. Remember this life is only temperory. The believers in Christ gain eternal life.

You must understand that when you use such arguments this is the kind of response you are going to get. A response that you could never really give a straight answer to.

This is the foundamental issue of great controversy. When Satan's characters are manifested and when God's characters are revealed, everyone will have the freedom of choice and will be given to opportunity to chose irrespect of their background and experience. The entire universe will declare in unision that God is just and God is love.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I know a family that prayed their way out of death. The gunman's gun completely jammed when he was pulling the trigger. He had the entire family lined up and was determined to kill them.

I think this is one of those situations where FAITH really comes into question. Then again, I know God expects HUMAN effort too.

Tough, tough, tough.