Self-Actualization

Kaonashi · Oct 7, 2005

What are then means to self-actualization?http://www.performance-unlimited.com/samain.htm

MoonlessNight · Oct 7, 2005

Virtues.

Kaonashi · Oct 7, 2005

Would you say that virtues come before the needs of the self or after?

MoonlessNight · Oct 7, 2005

Kaonashi said:
Would you say that virtues come before the needs of the self or after?

Virtues are things which help us complete our purpose. So, assuming our purpose has something to do with self-actualization, it would seem that fufilling our needs would work towards that purpose, as you can't self-actualize when you are dead, for instance. So paying proper attention to your needs would be a virtue. But of course, we can't determine what that means without knowing what those needs are. So the virtue comes second.

Eudaimonist · Oct 7, 2005

Kaonashi said:
Would you say that virtues come before the needs of the self or after?

Virtues are the means by which needs are most effectively met, so there is no "before" or "after". But needs are what justify virtues, so they are primary in that sense.

elman · Oct 7, 2005

MoonlessNight said:
Virtues are things which help us complete our purpose. So, assuming our purpose has something to do with self-actualization, it would seem that fufilling our needs would work towards that purpose, as you can't self-actualize when you are dead, for instance. So paying proper attention to your needs would be a virtue. But of course, we can't determine what that means without knowing what those needs are. So the virtue comes second.

I don't assume our purpose has anything to do with self actualization. I assume our purpose is connected to loving others since the God who created us enabled us to do that. In order for us to love others He had to give us the ability to love self and not others, but that I think is a dead end. It ends at the grave.

Maxwell511 · Oct 11, 2005

Kaonashi said:
What are then means to self-actualization?

From what I remember of Maslow's theory is that it will occur naturally only after all the other needs are met.

Maxwell511 · Oct 11, 2005

MoonlessNight said:
Virtues.

Virtues are the least important thing in attaining self actualisation.

For Hilter self actualisation would have occured in the domination of Europe and the eradication of the Jews. Conversely self actualisation for Gandhi would be the freeing of India. One man has vitues the other doesn't but this no effect on the ability to attain self actualisation.

gwenmead · Oct 11, 2005

Kaonashi said:
What are then means to self-actualization?

Consciousness helps. Awareness of self, others, and the world. Not just going through life like a drone. Think Plato's "Allegory of the Cave" here.

I dunno what else right now, as I'm only half awake.

Lifesaver · Oct 11, 2005

To actualize something is to change to act what existed before only as potency. When the embryo of a horse acquires the characteristics of a developed horse, the horse is being actualized. In other words, the horse's characteristics, which existed only as possibilities, become real in the full sense of the word; the embryonary horse has actualized his potencies as a horse; and the baby horse will actualize further potencies and become a mature horse.

So to actualize something is to make that something become more fully that which it is.

And what is a man? Man is a rational animal; what distinguishes it from other species of animals is the fact that he has a rational soul, a rational intellect.
Therefore, for a man to self-actualize himself is for him to act more in accordance with reason.
As he makes the choices to act in such a way repeatedly, he develops a predisposition to always act in such a way. These habits, which predispose man to act in accordance with reason are called virtues.

Thus, man is self-actualized when he acts (and this pertains both to external actions and to interior ones) in accordance with reason and becomes virtuous.

Surely, for man to act in such a way he needs also to survive, so his needs must be met; incidently, when one acts in order to get what they need they are acting in accordance with reason.

And we can't forget that man, after the Fall, has a natural tedency to error, to immorality, in short, to irrationality. In order to overcome it he needs the grace of God, and the examples of those who cooperated more fully with it, the saints, are exhalted by the Church for all to see and imitate, and thus self-actualize themselves more perfectly, whatever their conditions of life are.

Maxwell511 · Oct 11, 2005

I still don't think that virtues play a part in self actualisation. Virtues would shape what the person does to become self actualised if he has them but the don't if he doesn't.

Lifesaver · Oct 11, 2005

But when I say self-actualized, Maxwell, I mean actualized as a human being.

A man who is immoral and vicious, behaves not like a man, according to reason, but like an irrational beast (every single immoral action is an irrational one). I wouldn't say this person is self-actualized, but on the contrary, this person is the one with non-actualized potencies to the greatest degree.

The fact that they like and want to live in immorality brings them closer to beasts, and not to men.

Maxwell511 · Oct 11, 2005

Lifesaver said:
But when I say self-actualized, Maxwell, I mean actualized as a human being.

A man who is immoral and vicious, behaves not like a man, according to reason, but like an irrational beast (every single immoral action is an irrational one). I wouldn't say this person is self-actualized, but on the contrary, this person is the one with non-actualized potencies to the greatest degree.

The fact that they like and want to live in immorality brings them closer to beasts, and not to men.

I understand what you are saying.

I was thinking of self actualisation as a single person doing what they feel is correct or self-fulfilling. As in someone who loves painting painting.

Eudaimonist · Oct 12, 2005

Maxwell511 said:
I understand what you are saying.

I was thinking of self actualisation as a single person doing what they feel is correct or self-fulfilling. As in someone who loves painting painting.

I'd change that to say that self-actualization is a single person doing what truly is correct or self-fulfilling for that person. And so virtue is an aspect of self-actualization.

It is both virtuous and self-actualizing for a painter to paint, if painting is what actualizes that individual's self. I disagree that it truly was self-actualizing in any way consistent with Hitler's nature to try to conquer Europe. It would have been far better for Hitler to have been a painter instead.

"Feelings" do not completely determine what is self-actualizing. I agree with Lifesaver on this point.

shataytay · Oct 12, 2005

Verv · Oct 14, 2005

I think that self-actualization is not the act of becoming someone far reaching and great, but rather locating the happy median that destroys a lot of the stress and disconcernment in your life so that you can concentrate and remove yourslef from situations. It would be the act of reaching your potential as a human by no longer worrying what others thought of you as proof of this, being that one who has reached their full potential only then can be secure as to their own persons.

It is also important to be totally free in your self actualization and understand that you have become xactly and precisely the maximum of what you can become, and that you have become something that is above and beyond the crticism of others.

Part of self actualization si the ability to sing a song without fearing people laughing at you because you know that their laughter does not matter.

Coca0Cola · Oct 14, 2005

The definition of self-actualization is :
the idea of a hierarchy of needs suggests that the desire to fulfil ones potential is the final cause of motivated behaviour. Few people become self-actualizing according to this view of motivation. Those who do, generally in their fifties, are seen as possessing a similar set of ideals, values, and attitudes.
During philosophy you don't ask questions with answers such as the definition of a word that is defined!

Eudaimonist · Oct 15, 2005

jmverville said:
It would be the act of reaching your potential as a human by no longer worrying what others thought of you as proof of this, being that one who has reached their full potential only then can be secure as to their own persons.

That's an interesting connection you draw between feeling secure in oneself and self-actualization, though I think that self-actualization and the development of security-in-oneself go hand in hand. I don't think that one needs to reach one's full potential before one can feel secure. But the process of self-actualization can lead to a greater sense of security, and security can lead to further self-actualization. They reinforce each other.

AFallingStar · Oct 23, 2005

Maybe passion plays a part in self-actualization? In order for the musician to make music or the poet to write, each must hold some kind of passion for their action...

Tangnefedd · Nov 2, 2005

I have never heard the phrase 'self-actualisation' before. I am fulfilled by my artwork, poetry and writing. I can only create a picture when the vibes are right, I have to connect with something deep inside myself in order to do so, is this self-actualisation?

Self-Actualization

If God is thy father, man is thy brother.

Fides et Ratio

If God is thy father, man is thy brother.

Fides et Ratio

I believe in life before death!

elman

Contributor

Contributor

On walkabout

Fides et Ratio

Contributor

Fides et Ratio

Contributor

I believe in life before death!

Active Member

Senior Veteran

Active Member

I believe in life before death!

Moonlight breaks the chains...

A Liberal Christian

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency