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This shall be a rant a la Dennis Miller type.
My fahter was in WW II and Korea. Every single uncle was a WW II vet on bothe sides of the family. That was that generation.
We, the children of that generation grew up asking, "What did you do in the war, daddy?" Unfortunraly, our kids gres up with, "How did you dodge the draft daddy?"
[rant]
There was at a time called the Universal Conscript Law. Plain English version, being born an able bodied male citizen, you owed your country six years. The country didn't demand all six years active, there were many combinations...
An Air Force or Navy, Coast Guard or Marine Corps enlistment was usually four years
those who waited to get drafted were committed to two years active
the balance of active time at separation and six years was your reserve committment, but there was inactive reserve, ready reserve active reserves, etc...
As for the draft during the 'Nam, nothing said people had to volunteer for Special forces or Rangers or Airborne Infantry, like some of us did ...
there were plenty of skate jobs....no offense Coastie but that's why the Coast Guard had long waiting lists...one Cutter was sent to 'Nam and it was a CG Reserve ship...meanwhile, four year Marines were looking at two combat tours
NOW-
during Viet Nam people used every excuse imaginable to try and beat the draft...sham marriages, sudden conversions to Quaker and Mennonite and Jehovas' Witnesses, faked homosexuality, etc...
point is, any of these actions was nothing better than crawling under a rock... and flag waving Rush Limbaugh is one of the worst of these...so easy to wave the flag from inside a radio station, when the shooting has stopped
thus we now have the baby boomers who NOW regret not serving, so think playing paintball makes up for it
As for CO's...the true CO's served as medics and in other cpapcities where they didn't carry a weapon, but they served...I have no problem with someone like that...one of the bravest people I ever saw in Viet Nam was a C.O. combat medic....he was put in for the Medal of Honor but never got it because of his C.O. status.
The point of all this is that those not willing to defend freedom do not deserve freedom. No sidestepping with any baloney about just wars, etc...
Human nature teaches that those who come up with an excuse to duck xxx war will just switch gears for an excuse for another one. The real objection to any draft is more concern over someone's own hide than country.
The best system is like the Grmans ha in the 70's, the day Hans turns 18 he gets a piece of birthday cake and see ya in a year and a half.
As a Viet Vet, I will say this, I now have more respect for those chaps in the black pj's and rubber sandals that were trying to kill us than I do for one of our former Presidents. At least they fought for their country.
re: Viet Nam
In some VVA Halls, there is a map of Viet Nam on the wall, with oriental-script English over it, which says, "If you weren't there, shut ********* up
[/rant]
Originally posted by Knight
I find it interesting that so many people enjoy the fruits of this country but are unwilling to lift a finger to defend it.
Originally posted by Knight
I find it interesting that so many people enjoy the fruits of this country but are unwilling to lift a finger to defend it.
Originally posted by fragmentsofdreams
I am not saying that I refuse to fight if it proves necessary. I am saying that if I decide that the war is unjust, I refuse to fight.
I support the decisions to join the military voluntarily. However, this is not the issue. The question deals with forcing people to fight against their will.
Although I dread the day when my wife & I will have to drive them to an IDF induction center, we will certainly teach them not to shirk their responsibilities (people who want to live free can't piggyback on others for free) and that it is a privilege and an honor to wear IDF greens & defend our people's right to live free in our country.
Pacifism has no place in traditional Judaism.
(people who want to live free can't piggyback on others for free)
Originally posted by fragmentsofdreams
The question deals with forcing people to fight against their will.
If the situation ever came down to it, I'd sure rather have somone like that manning the gun next to me or out on the perimeter than someone who'd contemplate whetehr we should shoot the people shooting at us.
Originally posted by tamtam92
Why Canada ? France is a beautiful country !!! And we are not alike to go to war for the moment !!! There is no more military service !!! (only one information day for boys and girls !)
Originally posted by stillsmallvoice
People who object to military service can make their views known via the ballot box; this is the democratic way.
Originally posted by cenimo
As a Viet Vet, I will say this, I now have more respect for those chaps in the black pj's and rubber sandals that were trying to kill us than I do for one of our former Presidents. At least they fought for their country.
If I were a German in the 1940's (the war didn't start until 1939, remember) I probably wouldn't have objected to fighting in a war to regain what the League of Nations unfairly imposed on my country in the Treaty of Versailles. If it hadn't been for Georges Clemenceau trying to get revenge for the 1870 Franco-Prussian War, Word War II in Europe never would have happened.If you were a german in the 1930s, would you have objected to fighting in the war the german government started?
2) France, from what I hear, is notoriously socialist (so is Canada, but not as bad as France).
Originally posted by Evangelion
I'm curious to know why you're concerned about the prevalence of socialism
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