Seeking Truth

[Malyndi]

*I apologize if this is the wrong forum for this thread - Admin/Mods please move if necessary. Thanks*

I am not writing this thread to create a debate.

I am writing this thread for others to share with me their views, beliefs and to possibly teach me about Jesus.

I am a Pagan, a Polytheist, specifically an Odinist. That is I praise the Old Norse God/Godesses: Odin, Freya, Thor, etc.

I am Euro-centric and this path allows me to embrace my heritage that was stolen from my people by the Catholic Church; Forced conversions, etc.

But, I used to be a Christian. I was a Christian as of one-Year ago.

I went to private, Catholic schools for 12-Years.

I believe in God, the Creator of the Universe via the Big Bang. I believe in Evolution. I have NEVER believed in the Biblical, Creationist story. That is an old myth created for/by Jewish peasants. Yet, people still believe in it.

But, I digress.

What I do believe about Jesus:
1.He was a real person
2.He performed miracles
3.He healed the sick
4.He was crucified
5.He rose from the dead and appeared to countless people in the area

The issue I have is: Jesus BEING God.

I consider myself intelligent, I've read the entire Bible from first to last page.

The idea that I must believe in Jesus to get to God is hard for me to accept.

That being said, I shall finish with this: "Jesus is always patiently knocking on your door."

Is he knocking on mine?? I think HE may be.

**Also, please do not attack me here or spout rhetoric, people. I do not need to be preached at. I need to be spoken to kindly and have things explained by others.

I'm searching. Please be gentle.

Thank you,
Matthew

 

[Mediaeval]

In a way it's too late to get to God by some means other Jesus. For if God became man and united Himself to us, then the link has been established already. There is no way of getting around being in Christ, "the Head of every man", any more than there is a way of getting around being in Adam.

As to Christ's Deity specifically, consider that if God is love, self-forgetting, self-sacrificing, seeking the good of His creatures in everything, then the Incarnation of God Himself in human flesh makes perfect sense. How better to demonstrate His love, patience, forgiveness, and compassion? How better to show us what He Himself is like than to live among us?

Meanwhile, your suspicion is quite correct, that He is knocking at your door. Every earthly delight is a sign of His love. Every pain and fear an incentive to seek and so find your Deliverer.

The old northern gods did not do thus for their patrons. Coifi, the chief of the pagan priests under King Edwin, testified, "I have learnt beyond doubt, that the religion which we have hitherto professed has no virtue in it and no profit....This long time I have perceived that what we worshipped was naught; because the more diligently I sought after truth in that worship, the less I found it. But now I freely confess, that such truth evidently appears in this preaching [of the Christian faith] as can confer on us the gifts of life, of salvation, and of eternal happiness. For which reason my counsel is, O king, that we instantly give up to ban and fire those temples and altars which we have consecrated without reaping any benefit from them.” (Bede's Ecclesiastical History of England, chap. XIII. Of the Council he held with his chief men concerning their reception of the faith of Christ, and how the high priest profaned his own altars. [A.D. 627]

 

[Malyndi]

In a way it's too late to get to God by some means other Jesus. For if God became man and united Himself to us, then the link has been established already. There is no way of getting around being in Christ, "the Head of every man", any more than there is a way of getting around being in Adam.

As to Christ's Deity specifically, consider that if God is love, self-forgetting, self-sacrificing, seeking the good of His creatures in everything, then the Incarnation of God Himself in human flesh makes perfect sense. How better to demonstrate His love, patience, forgiveness, and compassion? How better to show us what He Himself is like than to live among us?

Meanwhile, your suspicion is quite correct, that He is knocking at your door. Every earthly delight is a sign of His love. Every pain and fear an incentive to seek and so find your Deliverer.

The old northern gods did not do thus for their patrons. Coifi, the chief of the pagan priests under King Edwin, testified, "I have learnt beyond doubt, that the religion which we have hitherto professed has no virtue in it and no profit....This long time I have perceived that what we worshipped was naught; because the more diligently I sought after truth in that worship, the less I found it. But now I freely confess, that such truth evidently appears in this preaching [of the Christian faith] as can confer on us the gifts of life, of salvation, and of eternal happiness. For which reason my counsel is, O king, that we instantly give up to ban and fire those temples and altars which we have consecrated without reaping any benefit from them.” (Bede's Ecclesiastical History of England, chap. XIII. Of the Council he held with his chief men concerning their reception of the faith of Christ, and how the high priest profaned his own altars. [A.D. 627]

Mediaeval:

Thank you so much for your reply. This is what I needed.

You have given me much to contemplate, good Sir.

Your inclusion of the quote by the Pagan Priest - I have never heard this before and it is so very important. I thank you for this.

Honestly, my belief in Odin is intellectual and hypothetical. I do not pray to this diety. When I pray it is to the Creator, the Desert Father. GOD.

I thank you for all of this. Please expose me to more should you be so inclined.

I really appreciate this.

Note: I take your post as a sign from God.

Kind regards,
Matthew

 

[bling]

Would God become human if it would help humans in fulfilling their earthly objective?

Is God powerful enough to be in two places at the same time?

The direction Christians receive about people coming to God through Christ has more to do with Christ living in and through Christians bringing others to Christ, it is more toward giving Christian’s direction than a dogmatic doctrine about people having to “know” Christ the person.

God is Love, so Christ is Love and if we want to draw people to Christ/God it is through drawing them to unconditional/selfless/sacrificial Love. They may not even know about Christ, but if they are drawn to Godly type Love they are being drawn to Christ and God.

What do you see as man’s objective while here on earth?

 

[Malyndi]

Would God become human if it would help humans in fulfilling their earthly objective?

Is God powerful enough to be in two places at the same time?

The direction Christians receive about people coming to God through Christ has more to do with Christ living in and through Christians bringing others to Christ, it is more toward giving Christian’s direction than a dogmatic doctrine about people having to “know” Christ the person.

God is Love, so Christ is Love and if we want to draw people to Christ/God it is through drawing them to unconditional/selfless/sacrificial Love. They may not even know about Christ, but if they are drawn to Godly type Love they are being drawn to Christ and God.

What do you see as man’s objective while here on earth?

bling:

What you wrote seems to ring true.

"What do you see as man’s objective while here on earth?"

Numerous objectives:

1. Kindness to Others
2. Spreading Peace
3. Becoming One with God

Please tell me more, bling, when you have the chance.

Thank you,
Matthew

 

[paul1149]

Hi Malyndi,

What I do believe about Jesus:
1.He was a real person
2.He performed miracles
3.He healed the sick
4.He was crucified
5.He rose from the dead and appeared to countless people in the area

The issue I have is: Jesus BEING God.
I consider myself intelligent, I've read the entire Bible from first to last page.
The idea that I must believe in Jesus to get to God is hard for me to accept.

You've got a great start there. But have you carried your reasoning out to its full extent? If the things you believe about Jesus are true, what does that imply about Him?

One of the things that I find most striking about the Gospel accounts is the authority of Jesus. He not only healed the sick and even raised the dead, He forgave sins, a far greater thing. He accepted worship. He continually focused attention on Himself as the source we should look to. Are you familiar with C.S. Lewis' Great Trilemma? He posits that Jesus must be either Lord, liar or lunatic. He has left no other possibility open.

I'm not sure what one learns in RC school these days. Back in my day the religious instruction was intense, but still I came out of it knowing very little. And I understand it's more lax today.

Have you spent time in the Gospels reading and pondering the life of Christ? Really, none of it makes sense unless His claim to absolute authority is true. If you haven't really done this it may be worth the effort to find out what it says, now that you are in a season of open inquiry.

If you solve the question of Christ's authority, the rest will fall into place. You will see why it is essential to believe on Him for eternal life.

 

[spr]

If Jesus didn't live a perfect life, without sin, then what do you do with your sins? There has never been anyone else that the world took seriously who said that they can forgive sins since the end of the old covenant.

So you have to come to one of three conclusions: that you have so sin, that you can be pardoned someone other than Jesus Christ, or that you need the forgiveness that Jesus offers.

 

[Malyndi]

So much to think about with all of your posts. I thank you!

Matthew

 

[bling]

bling:

What you wrote seems to ring true.

"What do you see as man’s objective while here on earth?"


Numerous objectives:

1. Kindness to Others
2. Spreading Peace
3. Becoming One with God

Please tell me more, bling, when you have the chance.

Thank you,
Matthew

Has God given man a mission statement? (this is always good to have)

Would “Loving God and secondly others with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy” be our Mission statement?


God is Love, but how do we define this Love and measure this Love?

This Godly type Love is defined by Jesus’ words and deeds (you can also use 1 Cor 13 and 1 John 4), so what is that?

Can we measure the “love” one being has for another being by the amount the first being is willing to unselfishly sacrifice for the other being?


Is God this ultimate Lover? Would that “Love” compel even God to make beings that could Love like He Loves (this “Love of God” is totally unselfish [a measure of pure Love] and thus is not for God’s sake at all but is totally for the sake of others)?

So if God is not doing anything for His own sake and everything for the sake of others, would he be expecting or needing anything from man or would God just be trying to give the greatest gift He could give to man?

The reason this “Love” is the most powerful force in all universes is because it compels even God. So to have this Love would make us like God Himself, so why does God not just make us with this Love and place us in heaven?

Are there something God just cannot do: like make another Christ, since Christ was never made but always existed?

Could God place this Godly type Love in a person at his/her creation (an instinctive love) or would an instinctive love be like a robotic love and not like God’s Love?

Could God just force His Love on man against the “will” of man or would that be like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun?

What does man need that he does not have instinctively in order for man to fulfill this Mission?

Man’s objective seems to be to obtain and grow this Godly type Love to fulfill the mission (statement) of Love God and secondly others with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy.

Our “objective” while here on earth is to just accept God’s gift as it was given as pure charity.

God is not trying to get you to do something, but is trying to give you something.

The problem is not sin (unforgiven sin is a huge problem), because God will forgive our sins which helps us to Love (…he that is forgiven much will Love much….) God hates sin, but does allow it so we can more easily accept His Love (in the form of forgiveness the easiest way for us to accept His charity). The problem is always our fulfilling our objective.