Seeking (Question Barrage)

Zoness · Oct 21, 2008

*Mostly targetted to the LCMS

Hi all, instead of boring you with all the details like I do with every other forum I think I'll just summarize my history and situation. I was raised Roman Catholic by my mom, my parents got divorced when I was 10 then my Dad got saved and eventually joined a non-denominational church that was wesleyan in theology and conservative but firiendly none the less. Anyways because of some interal struggles on faith I am looking for a total change of scenary theologically and I stumbed on Luthanism. Unfortunately it seems as if the Lutheran denomination is bitterly divided between conservative and liberal so here are some questions, particularly for the LCMS.

1. Is baptistism neccessary for salvation?
2. Is a Roman Catholic (or any non-lutheran) baptism looked upon as invalid?
3. To become a member of this church you must accept The Small Catechism, The Augsburg Confession etc. in its entirety correct?
4. In relative comparision to other churches (among all denoms.) how long does membership take?
5. Does the LCMS preach politics like the RCC does?

Thats set one for now I'm sure I'll come up with more, thank you for your time.

PreachersWife2004 · Oct 21, 2008

I'm WELS, but I think I can give you an answer on all of these that even DaRev will agree with!!

1. Is baptistism neccessary for salvation?

It is necessary, but not absolutely necessary, meaning we leave the door open for God in terms of those who did not have an opportunity to be baptized. For example, we have no reason to believe that the thief on the cross was baptized but we know that he was saved through his faith. Another example is when a baby is stillborn or miscarried. We don't have the same confidence that we do when a baptized soul is taken home, but we have the faith that God is a merciful God.

2. Is a Roman Catholic (or any non-lutheran) baptism looked upon as invalid?

As long as the baptism was done in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, you're good to go. You will not need to be rebaptized. It does not matter what denomination did it, nor does it matter whether the water was sprinkled on your forehead or if you were fully submerged.

3. To become a member of this church you must accept The Small Catechism, The Augsburg Confession etc. in its entirety correct?

This is correct for both LCMS and WELS (and probably some other Lutheran denoms [other than ELCA]).

4. In relative comparision to other churches (among all denoms.) how long does membership take?

Here is where answers may differ. My husband generally takes prospective members through an 8-16 week course depending on their understanding and initial confession. After that, the member is confirmed and considered a member. In the WELS, it's generally no more than a year and could be as quickly as a month. A lot depends on who the person is and what they believe.

I should add that teenagers going through catechism classes (also known as confirmation classes) usually do a two or three year stint.

5. Does the LCMS preach politics like the RCC does?

This I cannot answer with certainty, but I can say that most of the LCMS churches I am familiar with (and WELS churches) are loathe to preach politics from the pulpit. Ask my husband on the sidewalk who he's voting for and he'll give you a mouthful. Ask him in the pulpit though, and he'll merely tell you what a good Christian ought to look for in a candidate.

Thats set one for now I'm sure I'll come up with more, thank you for your time.

I know I'm not LCMS but I hope my answers have helped. I bet that some more learned in the LCMS will answer them better, like DaRev or Filo, but this is a starter in the meantime.

Studeclunker · Oct 21, 2008

I am in LCMS, Becky, and would say what you posted is spot on! The only thing I would add is what I've been told by several pastors:

First, many LCMS pastors feel it isn't really the place of a Pastor to deal with politics from the pulpit. That just isn't the proper venue for that sort of thing.

Second, the IRS will remove the tax-exempt status of a church which does so too very regularly. This is a 'separation of church and state' issue. The IRS has been instructed to remove the tax-exempt status of any church that involves itself in the political process. I could go into more detail, but that's for another thread. This, by the way, is a universal thing. All denominations and non-aligned churches are affected the same.

filosofer · Oct 21, 2008

The answers Becky gave would also apply to AALC.

Zoness · Oct 21, 2008

filosofer said:
The answers Becky gave would also apply to AALC.

Whos the AALC?

Don't know if it matters, in my town there is only 2 ELCA and 1 LCMS church.

filosofer · Oct 22, 2008

Very small Lutheran church body, now in altar and pulpit fellowship with LCMS. Mostly made up of old ALC congregations that refused to join in the ELCA merger in 1988.

Zoness · Dec 11, 2008

Bringing this thread back to life. I understand that the education process to be considered a member and be capable of taking communion is a very long process. How long? It won't be too long and I will be moving off to college and a turnoff for a few churches has been a long education to enter communion mostly because of a lack of "portability" so to speak. I would go through the process but then move away and have to start over or transfer memberships, the latter a process I am not familiar with that would rather complicate things.

BigNorsk · Dec 11, 2008

It all depends on the congregation and the minister.

Some have the time to sit down with you indvidually and then it doesn't take long at all.

Others have a scheduled class and it's usually one night a week and those take longer.

The only way to know is to ask the local minister.

Marv

porterross · Dec 11, 2008

Zoness said:
Bringing this thread back to life. I understand that the education process to be considered a member and be capable of taking communion is a very long process. How long? It won't be too long and I will be moving off to college and a turnoff for a few churches has been a long education to enter communion mostly because of a lack of "portability" so to speak. I would go through the process but then move away and have to start over or transfer memberships, the latter a process I am not familiar with that would rather complicate things.

The portability of your membership is more flexible than you might be thinking as it's not limited to your current congregation. There can be exceptions to this, of course, but once you become a communicant member of the LCMS, you are able to transfer member to another LCMS church and receive communion at any LCMS congregation or Lutheran church in altar and pulpit fellowship with the LCMS. It's always best to contact the pastor before approaching the altar and I've never had any issues being welcome outside my home congregation.

Zecryphon · Dec 11, 2008

Zoness said:
Bringing this thread back to life. I understand that the education process to be considered a member and be capable of taking communion is a very long process. How long? It won't be too long and I will be moving off to college and a turnoff for a few churches has been a long education to enter communion mostly because of a lack of "portability" so to speak. I would go through the process but then move away and have to start over or transfer memberships, the latter a process I am not familiar with that would rather complicate things.

It took me 10 weeks to become a member in my current church. From what I've read around here since then, I tend to think that was rather speedy.

QuiltAngel · Dec 11, 2008

The time it takes to take instruction can and does vary as has been mentioned. My husband usually works one on one as we are in a rural area. They can go through the materials at the rate that works best for the new member.

As far as going to college is concerned, you can do one of two things. You can keep your membership where you join at home and attend worship and communion at a church near school, talking with the Pastor before going for communion the first time. College towns are use to this happening Or, you can transfer your membership to the new church. This is usually fairly easy and done by contacting the Pastor at the new church asking how to handle it. Some Pastors will send a letter asking for a letter of transfer from the former Pastor. Other Pastors will ask you to have your former Pastor send the letter.

filosofer · Dec 11, 2008

When I do this, it takes 21-26 weeks, depending on discussion in class. Usually I try to have 1/3 to 1/2 of the attendees those who are already members. My reasoning involves several factors.

1. They spend time in the Bible, getting familiar with it.

2. They become used to the process of weekly Bible study, it becomes a good habit.

3. It greatly improves assimilation, because they have become friends with some who are already members.

4. Members raise questions because of their changed circumstances and they are not afraid in this class to ask the "dumb question", which helps new people realize that catechesis is a life-long process.

5. The students seldom, if ever, want the class to end. By the 18th week they know the class will soon end, and they begin asking "What can we study next?" As a pastor, it is good to have laid out a long-term approach to catechesis and discipleship that builds on what was done in the adult instruction class.

RadMan · Dec 11, 2008

filosofer said:
When I do this, it takes 21-26 weeks, depending on discussion in class. Usually I try to have 1/3 to 1/2 of the attendees those who are already members. My reasoning involves several factors.

1. They spend time in the Bible, getting familiar with it.

2. They become used to the process of weekly Bible study, it becomes a good habit.

3. It greatly improves assimilation, because they have become friends with some who are already members.

4. Members raise questions because of their changed circumstances and they are not afraid in this class to ask the "dumb question", which helps new people realize that catechesis is a life-long process.

5. The students seldom, if ever, want the class to end. By the 18th week they know the class will soon end, and they begin asking "What can we study next?" As a pastor, it is good to have laid out a long-term approach to catechesis and discipleship that builds on what was done in the adult instruction class.

I pray that all pastors would be so conscientious.

seajoy · Dec 11, 2008

RadMan said:
I pray that all pastors would be so conscientious.

That's what I was thinking.
I felt the same way after our Bible studies with filo in St Louis. I did not want to see them end.

filosofer · Dec 11, 2008

seajoy said:
That's what I was thinking.
I felt the same way after our Bible studies with filo in St Louis. I did not want to see them end.

Well, we did feel bad about disturbing your snoring.

Seriously, thanks.

seajoy · Dec 11, 2008

filosofer said:
Well, we did feel bad about disturbing your snoring.

Seriously, thanks.

very funny!!! haha!

ChiRho · Dec 12, 2008

PreachersWife2004 said:
Another example is when a baby is stillborn or miscarried. We don't have the same confidence that we do when a baptized soul is taken home, but we have the faith that God is a merciful God.

Stillborn or miscarried children of Christian parents can take comfort that God has indeed worked faith and saved their babies. For their children heard the Gospel within the womb and prayed as the mother prayed. But for children of heathen and ungodly parents we hold no such view. Perhaps the WELS does, though. Regardless, God remains merciful.

Zoness · Dec 16, 2008

QuiltAngel said:
The time it takes to take instruction can and does vary as has been mentioned. My husband usually works one on one as we are in a rural area. They can go through the materials at the rate that works best for the new member.

As far as going to college is concerned, you can do one of two things. You can keep your membership where you join at home and attend worship and communion at a church near school, talking with the Pastor before going for communion the first time. College towns are use to this happening Or, you can transfer your membership to the new church. This is usually fairly easy and done by contacting the Pastor at the new church asking how to handle it. Some Pastors will send a letter asking for a letter of transfer from the former Pastor. Other Pastors will ask you to have your former Pastor send the letter.

If I was a member of the church I would probably just do the former because it is not like I can just go and be like "yo get me a letter" to the pastor who I would still be moderately new to. Small churches and I don't mesh well initially I don't know why that is.

Thanks for all the helpful info guys.

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