Seeker-friendly?

[seashale76]

Here is a more traditional Pentecostal service from the same church which a certain county clerk in Kentucky attends. Check out the vid From Heaven's Point of View - Priscilla McGruder at the bottom of the page. Note how even the speaking in tongues is expertly synchronized with her song.

http://www.apostolic-churches.com/

Ugh. For people like me, we need a trigger warning for this kind of thing. (Former Pentecostal here. A/G, not oneness/holiness, but similar enough to be problematic.) So, FYI, if you associate Pentecostalism with spiritual abuse and everything horrible about religion (especially if you've been there and done that and spent the rest of your life trying to recover from that), then don't go to the link to watch the video.

 

[smaneck]

Ugh. For people like me, we need a trigger warning for this kind of thing. (Former Pentecostal here. A/G, not oneness/holiness, but similar enough to be problematic.) So, FYI, if you associate Pentecostalism with spiritual abuse and everything horrible about religion (especially if you've been there and done that and spent the rest of your life trying to recover from that), then don't go to the link to watch the video.

Holiness churches do tend to be pretty oppressive in this country, but I think the Independent Baptists are probably the worst in that regards.

 

[talitha]

LOL. I have to wonder however, to what extent more traditional liturgies do not also follower their own 'entertainment' model. Hymns written by the Wesley brothers were written to the tune of 19th century drinking songs, for instance.

Good point. I think the entertainment thing is not recent - it's just reached a fever pitch in some churches today, it seems to me. I think it started, possibly, when the churches stopped meeting in homes and synagogues and started meeting in buildings that separated the participants from the observants......
(I think I just invented a word, but you get my point)

 

[talitha]

Here is a more traditional Pentecostal service from the same church which a certain county clerk in Kentucky attends. Check out the vid From Heaven's Point of View - Priscilla McGruder at the bottom of the page. Note how even the speaking in tongues is expertly synchronized with her song.

http://www.apostolic-churches.com/

I am tryyyying to listen to this right now. Not my kind of thing, but I believe she is sincere. It's a style thing..... but as far as the tongues are concerned, you need to know that the Holy Spirit doesn't possess us like an evil spirit does - we can control the timing of tongues and prophecy and all that because we are lucid. She seems a bit emotionally over-wrought but still lucid.

 

[smaneck]

This whole discussion reminds me of some of the Catholic masses I attended while in India. As you may know, since Vatican II churches have been encouraged to perform the mass in the vernacular so that the parishioners can understand what is going on and relate to it by their own culture. . I attended two masses while there. One was an early morning service done in convent in the traditional Latin, complete with incense and bells. The other was an English language mass. The music was contemporary Christian songs sung to the tune of Bob Dylan songs. I couldn't help but wonder what Bob Dylan tunes had to do with Indian culture.

 

[talitha]

Aside: it's really helpful to know you are in India, smaneck. I wish CF would have kept that, and also the age thing. I find that people responded to me with more respect when they knew I was fifty (now fifty-one) years old....... not disparaging the way anyone on this thread is responding, just an aside......

 

[smaneck]

Aside: it's really helpful to know you are in India, smaneck. I wish CF would have kept that, and also the age thing. I find that people responded to me with more respect when they knew I was fifty (now fifty-one) years old....... not disparaging the way anyone on this thread is responding, just an aside......

I'm not in India now. I went there when I was doing research on my doctoral dissertation and that was some thirty years ago.
That should give you some idea of how old I am.

 

[talitha]

I'm not in India now. I went there when I was doing research on my doctoral dissertation and that was some thirty years ago.
That should give you some idea of how old I am.

haha, I suppose it should.

 

[talitha]

I've actually never seen a seeker friendly church.

Hmmm.. I keep thinking about this. Could you elaborate? In what way would you like to see a church be seeker-friendly?

 

[smaneck]

Hmmm.. I keep thinking about this. Could you elaborate? In what way would you like to see a church be seeker-friendly?

One which welcomes the hard questions?

 

[talitha]

Yeah the way things are set up in church, there really doesn't seem to be a place for asking those questions, and that is sad. The place where I address these questions is in my small group that meets on a weeknight.... but newcomers don't usually seek out the small group meetings..... #structuralproblems

 

[jacknife]

Hmmm.. I keep thinking about this. Could you elaborate? In what way would you like to see a church be seeker-friendly?

smaneck had a good start, I do have churches by me but their very judgmental very afraid of things. I would like to see a church more open if that makes any sense.

 

[smaneck]

smaneck had a good start, I do have churches by me but their very judgmental very afraid of things. I would like to see a church more open if that makes any sense.

That's why when Talitha first mentioned "seeker-friendly" churches I thought of the ads of the United Methodist Church which put so much emphasis on diversity.

 

[talitha]

By diversity, do you mean as in various races (which is awesome, I go to a racially diverse church), or accepting sin as an acceptable lifestyle?

 

[smaneck]

By diversity, do you mean as in various races (which is awesome, I go to a racially diverse church), or accepting sin as an acceptable lifestyle?

I mean accepting a diversity of thought as well. But you can decide for yourself:

http://www.rethinkchurch.org/

 

[talitha]

Ah, yeah, I left the UMC years ago because the definition of grace seemed to change in it from divine empowerment to live a life that pleases God (which I still believe it means) to tolerance of lifestyles contrary to Scriptural teaching.
A question that is kind of related to this thread, I think:
Why is it that when Muslims act like Muslims, Buddhists act like Buddhists, and Hindus act like Hindus, etc., we need to be accepting of them, but when Christians act like Christians, it's wrong (according to many ppl)? I am truly curious about this.

 

[Zoness]

This is for the non-Christians.
What do you think of "seeker-friendly" or "seeker-sensitive" churches?

I've liked them but in Christian circles I think the term "seeker-friendly" is a nasty byword for a church that is not serious or intense enough in its beliefs. It is often used as an insult between churches. That said, those churches DO tend to be more welcoming and I like that.

 

[jacknife]

Ah, yeah, I left the UMC years ago because the definition of grace seemed to change in it from divine empowerment to live a life that pleases God (which I still believe it means) to tolerance of lifestyles contrary to Scriptural teaching.
A question that is kind of related to this thread, I think:
Why is it that when Muslims act like Muslims, Buddhists act like Buddhists, and Hindus act like Hindus, etc., we need to be accepting of them, but when Christians act like Christians, it's wrong (according to many ppl)? I am truly curious about this.

what dose a Muslim act like if he was a Muslim? what dose a Buddhist act like if he acts like a Buddhist? what do Christians act like if they are Christians? there is no answers to these questions these things are pieces of a person so I guess I disagree with you lol.

 

[talitha]

For example, when a Christian refuses to bake a wedding cake for a couple who Biblically should not be marrying each other, he is sued. When Muslim does the same thing, crickets.

 

[smaneck]

For example, when a Christian refuses to bake a wedding cake for a couple who Biblically should not be marrying each other, he is sued. When Muslim does the same thing, crickets.

If a Muslim were to refuse to bake a cake for a Christian groom because Qur'anically he should not be marrying a Muslim bride he could be charged with discrimination as well. A baker should bake cakes, not judge his customers by whether they are living up to his own religious standards.