• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Seeing Jesus?

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by ZaraDurden, Aug 20, 2003.

  1. ZaraDurden

    ZaraDurden Comfortably Numb

    +136
    Atheist
    Single
    US-Others
    Since there were no paintings or likenesses of Jesus or Mary done while they were alive, today we really have no idea what they looked like. Paintings and sculptures all over show these figures looking basically caucasion, but this is only because of the biases of the first people who painted them. Jesus probably looked much more like the people of the middle east do today than any american or european.

    Stop me if i am wrong so far.

    But my real question is, if this is true, when people today see visions or Jesus or Mary, why do they often look like the artistic representations of them and not what they actually looked like?
     
    We teamed up with Faith Counseling. Can they help you today?
  2. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
    Christian
    Good question.

    Really all over the world, people paint pictures of Christ looking like themselves, whatever people of their locality look like. Pictures of Christ by Chinese artists look Chinese, and so on, so you are only partly right. This is fitting, since Christ's body was middle eastern, but he is God for all people, not just the middle easterners. He is available to all races, all cultures, not just the one he was born into.

    Now, who is it that described their vision of Christ to you, and what did they say Christ looked like?
     
  3. SavedByGrace3

    SavedByGrace3 Whoever calls on the name of Jesus will be saved Supporter

    +1,114
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
  4. good4u

    good4u <font color="darkblue"><font size="3"><b><i><font

    +45
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Republican
    What did the Jesus look like?

    It really is irrelevant, dont' you think?

    But if we MUST speculate, He was obviously middle eastern in looks. I would venture height "head and shoulders" above the Jewish population at the time. Is there a Scripture that might speak to this?
    I'm not sure. Jews I believe, where considerably shorter then, not sure why I think this tho'.

    Weight proportioned and on the thin side (heck, he walked every where he went!!)

    So that is my pic of the Lord.

    But when I see Him, face to face, I will know Him. :)
     
  5. Wills

    Wills Member

    286
    +0
    Messianic
    Why do we assume our focus on similarity would change for JESUS.

    If Chinese people unconsciously imagine a Chinese like Jesus

    how would they react to the arab area semitic type?

    Or what about those who teach that Adam was a type of northern

    euro type.? They are not expecting a Middle eastern Jesus.

    BUT THE BIG QUESTION IS how does Jesus look like in the

    CURRENT TIMES? He will not look like he looked in the 1st century

    because HE DID not look like the times of Adam, even though Jesus

    is older than Adam.

    How old would Jesus look because that IS WHAT affects his looks.

    Has he aged beyond his age when He was crucified or is he STILL

    a young MAN??

    This is going to be confusing.
     
  6. Wills

    Wills Member

    286
    +0
    Messianic

    You have raised a very good point, because OUR LIVES are defined by similarity of local ethnic looks and the unavoidable race - flesh appearance situation.
    Nobody has seen a GENUINE Vision of Jesus and Mary .
    With all due respect we must conclude they are mere wishful thinkable
    hallucinations.

    REGARDING what people dream of etc, when we dream or see visions, OUR BRAINS reproduce the images that we are used to seeing, so people would see the same images that they see in artistic renditions of Jesus


    The HUGE QUESTION IS how different races would react to the surprise when they see the real JESUS who would be of a different race.
    We live based on race.

    The Chinese would be surprised to see one who does not look like them
    The Adamic european believers would be frightened by a dark Jesus, .. much woe and confusion if Jesus is black to them.

    The Arab semites would also be surprised by a white european Jesus

    BUT whatever he looks like, ALL KNEES will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord.

    Blacks bow to white Jesus, whites kneel before the black Jesus, whichever way it turns out.
     
  7. ZaraDurden

    ZaraDurden Comfortably Numb

    +136
    Atheist
    Single
    US-Others
    To those who answered, thanks, but i think some of you somewhat misunderstood my question.

    Why do peoples visions of jesus and mary look like our biased representations of them, when they should look like they would have looked 2000 years ago.

    The same could be said for angels or the devil. We dont know what the devil looks like, yet people have visions of the horned, pointy tailed creature.
     
  8. Atkin

    Atkin Member

    428
    +1
    Christian
    The point you may be missing is that the "Visions" that people see

    in this era are not the visions that John saw of Jesus during Revelation

    or that which Ezekiel saw.

    Do not mix up dreams and imagination with visions of the Old and New Testament. Those dreams will look like the artists paintings in churches etc. We CANNOT have visions of Jesus especially after the times of the New Testament since God has paused interacting in such manner.

    People cannot see what Jesus looked like 2000 years ago in their dreams because you cannot recreate such a VISION UNLESS God creates that vision in your mind. Your brain simply creates what it sees in the Jesus paintings and the statues of Mary in Catholic churches etc
    Those are all false images anyway.

    Another point to consider is that Jesus is returning in the future and
    would not look like an ancient New Testament person.

    That is why it is pointless even debating how Jesus looks like in the dreams of people.

    The future look of Jesus is more important than the 2000 years ago look.
    Jesus looks like a post 20th century person, not 2000 years ago.
    Just as Adam was very ancient and JESUS was more modern than Adam and was not naked as Adam used to be.
    But Jesus actually existed before Adam, and WE HAVE NOT SEEN HOW JESUS LOOKED like in Genesis 1 before Adam was created.
    The GENESIS Jesus would look different from his appearance in the New Testament since humans had changed over the 2000 years after GENESIS. Jesus ALWAYS LOOKS like the humans HE LIVES WITH.
    That is why Jesus will not look like what He appeared to be over 2000 years ago.
     
  9. ZaraDurden

    ZaraDurden Comfortably Numb

    +136
    Atheist
    Single
    US-Others
    I am confused on a few things...

    "We CANNOT have visions of Jesus especially after the times of the New Testament since God has paused interacting in such manner."

    Why has god paused visions of jesus, and how do you know that he has? Does it say this in the bible?

    People cannot see what Jesus looked like 2000 years ago in their dreams because you cannot recreate such a VISION UNLESS God creates that vision in your mind.

    So you are saying when people have visions of the caucasion jesus, they are not created by god, but by human minds? Doesnt this mean that they are not real visions with meaning, but only dreams?
     
  10. Linda8

    Linda8 Member

    326
    +1
    Messianic
    The last part of the New Testament was written well over 1500 years ago, after the last vision of Christ.

    People in our era , have not seen visions of Christ.
     
  11. Mephster

    Mephster arete

    617
    +9
    Muslim
    US-Others

    Excepting, I presume, Anne Catherine Emmerich, Faustina Kowalska, Padre Pio et al., eh?
     
  12. Achichem

    Achichem Faithful

    +53
    Messianic
    In Relationship
    US-Libertarian
    I believe it has to do with the miracles of the false Christianity spoken about by Jesus, of course what do I know.
     
  13. GURTMAN

    GURTMAN New Member

    6
    +0
    If you = seeing jesus: CALL TEH DOCTOR!
     
  14. Atkin

    Atkin Member

    428
    +1
    Christian
    Yes,the Bible is clear on the fact that since the first century, God has not given any visions of Himself or Christ

    John 14:15 And I will ask the Father and he will give you another Advocate the Holy Spirit
    This is the Spirit of truth that the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him or knows him

    John 14:26 The Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and remind you of all that I have said to you

    NOW THE HOLY SPIRIT IS WHAT WE HAVE HAD SINCE Pentecost and IT IS INVISIBLE

    Another point is that VISIONS of God and Christ are very very serious visions that cannot be seen SAFELY by the average man/woman child... a far cry from the images we have of a gentle Jesus talking to kids etc

    Read Revelation 1:12-18 EVEN A POWERFUL believer like John, who was close to Christ was severely terrified of the blazing eyes and thunderous voice of Christ in that vision

    No, this is restricted to only people at the level of Apostles , Saints etc
    Read Daniel 10:5-9 Again, the visions of Christ and his blazing eyes and loud voice etc, really frightened Daniel, who was someone USED TO SEEING VISIONS and commuicating with God.
    There is a huge difference between imaginary visions and REAL VISIONS of God and Christ.
     
  15. Oblio

    Oblio Creed or Chaos

    +828
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    US-Others
    The appearance of our Lord was recorded by the Apostle St. Luke and copies throughout the ages in Holy Icons. This practice was common and accurate during that portion of history, why should we doubt the recording of the image of our Lord.

    Numerous Saints have seen visions of Christ before them. There is no Scritpure that says that this cannot be so. We cannot see the Holy Spirit, or The Father, but nothing says that Holy men cannot see Christ, his Mother, or the Saints.
     
  16. Oblio

    Oblio Creed or Chaos

    +828
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    US-Others
    The Bible speaks not of events past the first century other than prophesy.

    I agree that the Holy Spirit is invisible, what does this have to do with visions of Christ.

    Where does Scripture state this. St. John the Theologian saw Christ in a vision, quite safely.

    And of course, many Saints have seen visions of Christ, his Mother, and other Saints. Scripture nowhere states levels required for these visions to occur.

    What would these differences be ?
     
  17. Oblio

    Oblio Creed or Chaos

    +828
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    US-Others
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Atkin

    Atkin Member

    428
    +1
    Christian
    Fancy imaginary dreams and hallucinations are not Visions of Christ.

    THIS BELOW... IS WHAT WE CALL A VISION OF CHRIST, available only to the Likes of John, Daniel etc

    10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as
    of a trumpet,
    11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest,
    write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto
    Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto
    Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
    12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw
    seven golden candlesticks;
    13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man,
    clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden
    girdle.
    14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes
    were as a flame of fire;
    15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice
    as the sound of many waters.
    16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp
    twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
    17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand
    upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

    NOTE--JOHN WAS VERY FRIGHTENED--17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead.

    He was in the Spirit and I daresay, our latter day "holy" people cannot be privy to the Visions seen by John etc

    I wonder why the so called visions of Christ do not resemble ACTUAL RECORDED VISONS
    but are mere constructs to suit human ideas and human assumptions and NOSTALGIC desires.


    THIS VISION BELOW WOULD FRIGHTEN any mortal SEVERELY

    DANIEL WAS VERY FRIGHTENED by JESUS AND PRACTICally fainted AT HIS FEET
    ---

    DANIEL 10:5 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in
    linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz:
    6 His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning,
    and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished
    brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
    7 And I Daniel alone saw the vision: for the men that were with me saw not the
    vision; but a great quaking fell upon them, so that they fled to hide themselves.
    8 Therefore I was left alone, and saw this great vision, and there remained no
    strength in me: for my comeliness was turned in me into corruption, and I
    retained no strength.
    9 Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words,
    then was I in a deep sleep on my face, and my face toward the ground.
    10 And, behold, an hand touched me, which set me upon my knees and upon
    the palms of my hands.

    11 And he said unto me, O Daniel, a man greatly beloved, understand the
    words that I speak unto thee, and stand upright: for unto thee am I now sent.
    And when he had spoken this word unto me, I stood trembling.

    FEAR NOT DANIEL

    12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst
    set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words
    were heard, and I am come for thy words.
     
Loading...