Secular Music

[skinhead honor]

i understand that there are limits to what a christian should and shouldn't listen 2, but my gosh!

Personally, I never really found borders on what a Christian should and shouldn't listen to. Music is a form of entertainment. For example, my band is made up of 4 conservative Roman Catholics, and yet we have a song called 'Shoot to Thrill.' I don't really think Christ would have too much of a problem with most of the music today that is labeled as "offensive."

 

[foo-oswald]

Is listening to secular music and christian music wrong? Is there anything that's bible-based that backs up this? I listen to alot of Country Songs, and there are plenty of Country Songs that are clean. Is this wrong?

And, there are some country songs that aren't "clean". Like Sin Wagon by the Dixie Chicks.

Personally, I don't think it's "wrong" to listen to secular music. I just hate the fact that the Christian music community does nothing but copy every secular artist/band. It's like they're saying, "Do you like Creed? Well you'll love Kutless!"

 

[reformedfan]

I just hate the fact that the Christian music community does nothing but copy every secular artist/band. It's like they're saying, "Do you like Creed? Well you'll love Kutless!"

these types of charts would be helpful if they were accurate, or at least written by a buncha people who had a clue.

I don't know how many Christian CDs I bought thinking they were 'like' who I like, only to find out that was definitely not the case.

As far as copying the music of the heathens, yeah, that makes me mad. I review CDs for a site & the only way to get a good review outta me is to sound original; so I'll even give good reviews to stuff you couldn't pay me to listen to in my off time. When I catch a Christian band 'channeling' Stink- 182, or Hooboywestank or some other heathen band... disappointing doesn't even begin to scratch the surface.

 

[Hockley]

I like to think about what I listen to and what the singer / songwriter might be saying or asking... Sometimes I hear people saying, in their own way, that they don't like where they are, or what the world is like... And they are asking for a better way or for something better or... Christ is a "better way" and Christ has what people need. I wouldn't want to trash someone's cry for help, I would rather be holding out the hand of Christ. If its not chosen or taken, then he / she has the right to choose being created a free being.

 

[~Lady Trekki~]

I find this thread and the answers given very interesting.

First of all, please dont think I'm judging any of you for your responses. I'm not. But since I am one of the oldest one here, I just want to give you a little insight...you can take it or leave it ok?

For the most part I don't listen to the music that non-christian artists have written...and here's why. Most of the time, the lyrics are ungodly and are not encouraging. Yes, there are some that do have good messages. But you should be careful what you feed your soul. Music just happens to be one of the most influential things in our lives. Not only are you hearing it, but your feeling it too. It's powerful. And it's also one way that satan can grab a foothold in your life. I know this from my own life.

All I'm saying is be careful...watch out for the deceitful one who is out to kill, steal and destroy whatever he can while he has his chance.

Thanks for hearing me out guys!

 

[CaDan]

DISAGREE!!

everyone should listen to Johnny Cash.

No, no, no.

Everybody should BE Johnny Cash.

Except me. I'm gonna be Carl Perkins.

 

[The Theory]

I'm trying man... I'm trying.

 

[foo-oswald]

these types of charts would be helpful if they were accurate, or at least written by a buncha people who had a clue.

I don't know how many Christian CDs I bought thinking they were 'like' who I like, only to find out that was definitely not the case.

As far as copying the music of the heathens, yeah, that makes me mad. I review CDs for a site & the only way to get a good review outta me is to sound original; so I'll even give good reviews to stuff you couldn't pay me to listen to in my off time. When I catch a Christian band 'channeling' Stink- 182, or Hooboywestank or some other heathen band... disappointing doesn't even begin to scratch the surface.

What's with all this "heathen" stuff? When you use that phrase, I can't help but picture you as one of those maniacs that stand on the street corner screaming "You're gonna burn, you heathen!!"

But, I have to agree with ya on Hoobastank. Worst band of the last five years or so. Ever seen 'em live? How did they even get a record deal?!?!?!

 

[Hockley]

I kinda like The Boss and the Beatles and U2 and Bob Dylan and oh my there is quite a long list... sorry not Johnny Cash. But I like Loreena McKinnett and so much more. And a whole lot of rockish worship stuff...

 

[mark53]

If listening to secular music could be wrong

What if:-

one has secular friends
Secular jobs
reads secular books, newpapers, watches secular TV and movies, DVD's etc
Lives in a secular house (as against Temple, monastry etc)
plays secular games - electronic and whatecer

Etc, etc, etc.

If ONE is wrong, i.e. secular music, then also isn't the rest of these wrong also?
If being secular is evil in itself than ALL MUST therefore be the same! Otherwise it is just picking what you want.

 

[antiarte]

If listening to secular music could be wrong

What if:-

one has secular friends
Secular jobs
reads secular books, newpapers, watches secular TV and movies, DVD's etc
Lives in a secular house (as against Temple, monastry etc)
plays secular games - electronic and whatecer

Etc, etc, etc.

If ONE is wrong, i.e. secular music, then also isn't the rest of these wrong also?
If being secular is evil in itself than ALL MUST therefore be the same! Otherwise it is just picking what you want.

I've alwys thought the same things. I've seen kids condemn secualr music...and they play games like Doom and stuff in their computers. And they watch secular movies.

I think they think music has like....I don't know, the ability to influence you the way a film or a book wouldn't.

 

[philN]

This morning I ate a secular breakfast.

And I just had a secular lunch.

I keep repenting, but I just can't stop! Pray for my soul!

 

[philN]

Okay, but seriously. Aside from just being ridiculous, this whole hierarchy of sacred things being better than secular things is unscriptural. In reeks of the gnosticism that has been working it's way back into the church.

1 John was written to combat gnosticism, which is basically the belief that only things that are spiritual are good and the physical are bad. While there should be a distinction between the sacred and the secular, neither one should be hierarchially better than the other. The two consequences of gnosticism are legalism and antinomianism. Legalism is the one that is most common, and is also the one that I have seen on CF pretty frequently. What we have to remember is: God can be glorified in the spiritual and in the physical. For example, if a christian writes a song about hats, that song is not spiritual in nature, but if that christian uses the gifts that God has given him and is seeking to please God by creating, just as He created, then God is glorified through the song. Or think about it like this: God is truth. Therefore, if any secular artists says anything that has truth in it, God can be seen in it, even if it was unintended. It's a matter of perspective and discernment. There are certian things that I don't listen to because I feel it will cause me to stumble, but it is not my place to enforce my convictions on all other christians.

Christianity is not about rules, it is about wisdom.

 

[Amongst the Flock]

Therefore, if any secular artists says anything that has truth in it, God can be seen in it, even if it was unintended. It's a matter of perspective and discernment.

1 John 2:15-17

Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For everything in the world--the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does--comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.

Worldliness is not just an external practice of who we associate with, the places we go, and the activities we enjoy but is internal as well. It begins in the heart with:

1. cravings of sinful man-gratifying the physical desires,
2. the lust of the eyes in craving and accumulating things-bowing to the God of materialism, and
3. boasting of what someone has and does-obsession with one's status or importance.

By contrast God values self-control, generosity, and humble service. It is possible to love sinners and spend time with them if you are using Christian humility and maintaining God's morals.

What values are important to you?

Do your actions reflect the world's values or God's values.

Knowing that the evil desires of this fallen world will one day fall away and our pleasures for the world will end can give us courage to control our greedy, self-indulgent behavior and continue to be slaves of righteousness for God's will.

Remember we are "in" the world not "of" the world.

Once again I am blown away by Philn's perspective of secular Christianity.

ALL GLORY BE TO JESUS OUR LORD AND SAVIOR.

 

[philN]

Once again I am blown away by Philn's perspective of secular Christianity

Would you mind elaborating? I fail to see where I have justified some sort of sinful behavior or where I have said anything contrary to scripture (I believe the thrust of my arguement was against gnoticism, which the Bible is clearly against). I'm just a little confused how you can conclude that I am trying to live in the light and darkness based solely on the fact that I do not have the same convictions as you when it comes to music. Please, elaborate.

 

[Amongst the Flock]

Christianity is not about rules, it is about wisdom.

So we should disregard the 10 commandments.

1 Corinthians 3:18-23

Do not decieve yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness", and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile." So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future--all are yours, and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.

We should pursue knowledge but if worldly wisdom holds you back from God, it is not wisdom at all. God's way of thinking is far more valuable even if it might seem foolish to the world. Pride will hinder true knowledge and will make the value of the presentation of the message more then what the content is providing.

Calvin's views were based on scripture but some take it out of "context" and take it far past what the original philosophical view was intended for.

Only God knows who the elect are, men and their finite minds do not.

So secular wisdom is useless and foolishness to God.

Peace brother.

 

[Amongst the Flock]

Would you mind elaborating? I fail to see where I have justified some sort of sinful behavior or where I have said anything contrary to scripture (I believe the thrust of my arguement was against gnoticism, which the Bible is clearly against). I'm just a little confused how you can conclude that I am trying to live in the light and darkness based solely on the fact that I do not have the same convictions as you when it comes to music. Please, elaborate.

Eveytime someone tries to talk about the sinful message of certain secular bands you always take their point out of context and compare it to secular food, books, and clothing. It seems as if everything is inherently secular and thus Christianity must be sacredcular.

Got it.

 

[philN]

Eveytime someone tries to talk about the sinful message of certain secular bands you always take their point out of context and compare it to secular food, books, and clothing.

I am not taking a point out of context, so much as I am trying to show you that the word "secular" is not a bad thing. If you say that "secular music" is evil, that is just as absurd as saying that "secular food" is evil. Secular just means that it is not connected with the church. That is not a good thing or a bad thing.

Do you really think it's wrong to listen to people sin? Do you think it's wrong to read about people sinning? If that was the case it would be wrong to read the Bible, as there are all kinds of stories and graphic descriptions of sin in there.

It seems as if everything is inherently secular and thus Christianity must be sacredcular.

By no means. There is a distinction between sacred and secular. Something that is sacred has a connection with the church or was intended for the church; something that is secular does not. One is not better than the other; they are just different. God can be glorified through both.

For example: I work in photo retail and I also do freelance writing. My grandfather is a pastor. My job is secular; my grandfather's job is sacred. If I use the gifts that God has given me to to the best that I can at my jobs and my grandfather uses the gifts that God has given him to do the best that he can at his job, then God is glorified through both the sacred and the secular. Or take the music of Johann Sebastian Bach. He wrote many pieces for church use; he also wrote pieces that were not for church use. Do you think that only his church pieces glorified God? No! God can be glorified through the sacred and the secular. All I have been trying to say is that there is a distinction between the sacred and the secular, but that distinction does not imply that one is greater than the other: to say that it did would be gnosticism as we have already gone over.

 

[philN]

Christianity is not about rules, it is about wisdom.

So we should disregard the 10 commandments.

No. You are quoting me out of context. I said that in reference to personal convictions, not to sin. When it comes to something like art, the Bible does not say that you can enjoy this art, but not that art. There isn't a general rule when it comes to what people should and should not listen to; it comes down to convictions and using wisdom and discernment.

1 Corinthians 3:18-23

Do not decieve yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a "fool" so that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness", and again, "The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile." So then, no more boasting about men! All things are yours, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future--all are yours, and you are of Christ, and Christ is of God.

We should pursue knowledge but if worldly wisdom holds you back from God, it is not wisdom at all. God's way of thinking is far more valuable even if it might seem foolish to the world. Pride will hinder true knowledge and will make the value of the presentation of the message more then what the content is providing.

So because I say that we have to use wisdom when we are listening to things, you automatically assume that I am talking about worldly knowledge? The Bible says that the Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom (note: it's not the fear of Satan and his influence, as some others seem to believe [not mentioning any names]). When I listen to music I know that God is sovereign and far more powerful than Satan; I also know that because I am His he will give me convictions so that I know what my boundaries are. There are certain things that I do not listen to because they put my mind in the wrong place. I use wisdom (i.e. the fear of the Lord and at the same time, my faith in His spirit) to know what I should and shouldn't listen to. Just because those convictions are different than yours is no reason to call me salvation into question.

Calvin's views were based on scripture but some take it out of "context" and take it far past what the original philosophical view was intended for.

I don't deny that some of Calvin's views have been taken out of context. I also don't deny that there are some things that I disagree with Calvin on. That said, my worldview is firmly rooted in scripture. Sure, there are things about the bible that I don't understand or that I am still working through, but I have yet to see any evidence that goes against the things that I have said in this thread.

Do you believe that God is sovereign? Do you believe that He is in control of the World? Do you believe that He can be glorified through the sacred and the secular, the physical and the spiritual? Who do you fear more - God or Satan?

Only God knows who the elect are, men and their finite minds do not.

I agree. But I fail to see the relevance of this statement to this particular discussion.

So secular wisdom is useless and foolishness to God.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom as I already said. But there is a difference between wisdom and truth.

Do you believe that all truth reflects God? Do you believe that people who are not Christians can grasp aspects of truth?

 

[Amongst the Flock]

Do you think that only his church pieces glorified God? No! God can be glorified through the sacred and the secular.

I always talk about secular Gangstar rap and secular heavy metal and you always take my posts and compare it to music like Celine Dion or a classical symphony.

Tell me how God is glorified through Slayer and Eminem?



Just because those convictions are different than yours is no reason to call my salvation into question.

I never said your salvation was in question but you always approve of secular music because you think that since you can handle it that everyone else will be able to. Not everyone lives in a house with a white picket fence and has two loving parents. Many suffer from physical and mental abuse and music is what they turn to as a release. So to tell someone who is in a very bad situation that it is alright to listen to music that could lead them into bondage by the enemy is just wrong.

As usual your self-centeredness of what you can handle continues to be pushed on others who you don't know and have no clue of what their situation is.

What if one of these fellow Christians has mental illness?

What if you mentioned a band that has a negative message on here and someone who never has heard of them buys it and the temptation of the lyrical content draws them away from Christ?

Sure it is their choice of what they do but to approve of some music that has a lyrical message that is sinful and detrimental to someone is just wrong.

I do apologize but you continue to think that everyone is as spiritualy strong as you think you are and it comes off as very prideful.

Peace