Second Question :D

[Jon_]

You would rather they wandered the streets and potentially get into a life of crime - do you think God would really want you to do that? - just curious

You see, that's the beauty of God's grace. It's not up to me what happens to my child. My obligation, my responsibility, is to love him or her and uphold the Word of God. I don't have to worry about my child because he or she will rest firmly in the grasp of God's unyielding sovereignty.

That's what is so liberating, refreshing, and encouraging about knowing the truth of God's sovereign grace. It's not up to me! I have absolutely no say whatsoever in the life of my child. His or her life has already been preordained for the entire span of it. His or her soul has already been appointed according to God's perfect plan. I don't have to worry about throwing them out on the street and them ending up in a life of crime. It's not my responsibility! They are responsible for their own actions.

I am responsible only for my actions as a father. These responsibilities I will uphold in the highest. My child will be raised according to biblical principles. He or she will learn to respect and honor religion. If he or she does not, it will not be because I did not fulfill my obligation to teach them the ways of God. Nor will I be responsible for the consequences of his or her decision to disrespect me and my Lord.

I will certainly not judge my own child. No, I will love him or her with every fiber of my being; but I will most certainly not tolerate irreligious dissention and rebellion in my home.

It is my sincere and earnest prayer that none of this should ever come to pass, though. I pray to God that I shall never again have to repeat any of these words, because the day I throw my son or daughter out of the house will be the day my heart shatters. God willing, I will never speak of this subject again, let alone have to put my convictions to action.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Elderone]

Throw your son or daughter out on the street - what a Christian attitude - what attitude does that potray to outsiders looking in (IMHO) but you are as entitled to your opinion as I mine.

You would rather they wandered the streets and potentially get into a life of crime - do you think God would really want you to do that? - just curious

Remember what God did to Israel when they didn't obey?? He was very severe, being conquered by neighbors, being slaves, etc., etc.

God is not the kindly old grandfather who sits back and lets us, and the world, go its merry way.

Here is what He says about being disrespectful or unworthy of Communion.

1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body.

John Gill says this about 1Co 11:29

Ver. 29. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, &c.] As before explained, #1Co 11:27 "eateth and drinketh damnation to himself"; or guilt, or judgment, or condemnation; for by either may the word be rendered; nor is eternal damnation here meant; but with respect to the Lord’s own people, who may through unbelief, the weakness of grace, and strength of corruption, behave unworthily at this supper, temporal chastisement, which is distinguished from condemnation with the world, and is inflicted in order to prevent it, #1Co 11:32 and with respect to others it intends temporal punishment, as afflictions and diseases of body, or corporeal death, as it is explained in #1Co 11:30. This they may be said to eat and drink, because their unworthy eating and drinking are the cause and means of it.


Our philosophy's, yours and the Calvinists here, are different and we probably won't come to any agreement on this, or many other issues.


I do appreciate the opportunity to lock horns, so-to-speak, and have the iron sharpening iron exercise.


In His Service

 

[Buttermilk]

It is my sincere and earnest prayer that none of this should ever come to pass, though. I pray to God that I shall never again have to repeat any of these words, because the day I throw my son or daughter out of the house will be the day my heart shatters. God willing, I will never speak of this subject again, let alone have to put my convictions to action.

It saddens me that you would contemplate throwing your child out because he is not elect. God rejects him/her and thier own father in turn rejects them.

As for your definition of God Elderone we will have to agree to disagree there as well - you paint him as an ogre (JMHO of your statement please don't take that the wrong way). I don't see God like that at all, in fact the exact opposite.

Thank you for the input from both of you. We won't agree - that was obvious from the start but thanks for taking the time to reply both of you.

I am going to bow out now before it turns into a debate.

 

[Imblessed]

It saddens me that you would contemplate throwing your child out because he is not elect. God rejects him/her and thier own father in turn rejects them.

As for your definition of God Elderone we will have to agree to disagree there as well - you paint him as an ogre (JMHO of your statement please don't take that the wrong way). I don't see God like that at all, in fact the exact opposite.

Thank you for the input from both of you. We won't agree - that was obvious from the start but thanks for taking the time to reply both of you.

I am going to bow out now before it turns into a debate.

Buttercup, with all due respect, I believe you have completely misunderstood both Jon and Elderone. I think you should go back and carefully read what they have posted, because it "seems" to me that you have only actually read the parts that you wanted to read--the parts that offend you and your view of God.

You seem to think that Jon would be throwing his kid out of the house because he is not-elect--when that is not what he is saying at all!!

I think you are being much to simplistic about this whole scenerio, and also are going into it with a mis-understanding of what we Calvinists believe on the subject.

I'm not trying to be offensive, just trying to point out what I noticed while reading this exchange.....


God Bless,
Windi

 

[Elderone]

As for your definition of God Elderone we will have to agree to disagree there as well - you paint him as an ogre (JMHO of your statement please don't take that the wrong way). I don't see God like that at all, in fact the exact opposite.

I'm sorry if it came across as if God is, or I think He is, an ogre. God is love just as you see Him. If He didn't love us we would all be destined for hell.

He is also to be obeyed.


The following are examples of the Loving Father God is, De 28:1, who also requires we pay attention to Him, Jos 5:6.


De 28:1 "Now it shall come to pass, if you diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God, to observe carefully all His commandments which I command you today, that the LORD your God will set you high above all nations of the earth.


Jos 5:6 For the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people who were men of war, who came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they did not obey the voice of the LORD—to whom the LORD swore that He would not show them the land which the LORD had sworn to their fathers that He would give us, "a land flowing with milk and honey."


In His Service

 

[Jon_]

It saddens me that you would contemplate throwing your child out because he is not elect. God rejects him/her and thier own father in turn rejects them.

As for your definition of God Elderone we will have to agree to disagree there as well - you paint him as an ogre (JMHO of your statement please don't take that the wrong way). I don't see God like that at all, in fact the exact opposite.

Thank you for the input from both of you. We won't agree - that was obvious from the start but thanks for taking the time to reply both of you.

I am going to bow out now before it turns into a debate.

Hello sister. I would never throw my child out because he or she was not elect. Please try to understand my position instead of putting words into my mouth.

I would only throw them out for open rebellion against religion and my authority to mandate it in my home. His or her status as elect is completely hidden from me. God is the sole judge of souls. It could be that my child willingly participates in church activities but has no real love. That is God's prerogative. So long as my child respects and honors religion, they will be blameless in my eyes (in this regard). Even if my child is elect (which I cannot know, remember), but shows open rebellion against religion, he or she will still be turned out of my home.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[JJB]

Should parents force these children to continue attending (especially those who have reached their teen years and are capable of understanding what they do and don't believe)?

Is there any point in children being in Sundayschool - won't their Elective status will be discovered when they are older, so they don't need to go to church or Sundayschool until then, when they "decide" for themselves that they want to go?

Until the children are "out of the house" we require them to attend church because it is a family thing. Once they are emancipated then they will be free to choose.

I know this is not a popular view, but it is one we maintain.

 

[rnmomof7]

Until the children are "out of the house" we require them to attend church because it is a family thing. Once they are emancipated then they will be free to choose.

I know this is not a popular view, but it is one we maintain.

We had the same "rule" in our home when I was an Arminian .

Parents are responsible for the spiritual education of our children .

Today as adults 4 of my children are saved and 3 are not.

I pray for my unsaved kids, I love them dearly churched or unchurched .

This has not one thing to do with "election" It does have to do with order in your home and having children that respect the faith of their parents and the rules of the home.

All of my children respected us and kept all of our house rules.

They did not smoke in our home or curse or bring boyfriends/girlfriends home to share their bed. They went to either my church or their fathers' on Sundays

This is about respect, not election

 

[Elderone]

Until the children are "out of the house" we require them to attend church because it is a family thing. Once they are emancipated then they will be free to choose.

I know this is not a popular view, but it is one we maintain.

This is about respect, not election

Respect - A trait "almost" unknown in modern society...........