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Second Beast of Revelation

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There for awhile, I came to the horrible, wrong conclusion, mostly out of fear, that modern Christianity was some kind of Second Beast of Revelation.

I have my reasons though. One of my family members, for example, takes church just a little too literally, to the point of it, in my opinion, making them worse instead of better.

I will say this though. Since I have been back to the forums, I'll take a slightly softer stance. Even if I am here only a hour a day for example, that's one more hour I think about religion. Which makes the forums a good thing overall.

On the other hand, I'm not going to make the same mistakes I have made in the past, of changing my beliefs whenever the opposition "sounds better". Because frankly, a lot of stances to a lot of subjects have some great information behind them.

I'm just glad to get this out of my system. Summary: I expressed that I thought modern Christianity was some kind of "true religion mingled with false religion". I think what I hinted at was really harsh not to mention, in danger of breaking the rules if I actually believed it and wanted to drive the point home.

Basically I'm a Work In Progress. Lol. And I do apologize for kind of jumping to that (totally incorrect) intuition-based conclusion.

Okay, question. What do you consider the Second Beast of Revelation to be?
 

Phantasman

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There for awhile, I came to the horrible, wrong conclusion, mostly out of fear, that modern Christianity was some kind of Second Beast of Revelation.

I have my reasons though. One of my family members, for example, takes church just a little too literally, to the point of it, in my opinion, making them worse instead of better.

I will say this though. Since I have been back to the forums, I'll take a slightly softer stance. Even if I am here only a hour a day for example, that's one more hour I think about religion. Which makes the forums a good thing overall.

On the other hand, I'm not going to make the same mistakes I have made in the past, of changing my beliefs whenever the opposition "sounds better". Because frankly, a lot of stances to a lot of subjects have some great information behind them.

I'm just glad to get this out of my system. Summary: I expressed that I thought modern Christianity was some kind of "true religion mingled with false religion". I think what I hinted at was really harsh not to mention, in danger of breaking the rules if I actually believed it and wanted to drive the point home.

Basically I'm a Work In Progress. Lol. And I do apologize for kind of jumping to that (totally incorrect) intuition-based conclusion.

Okay, question. What do you consider the Second Beast of Revelation to be?

II "consider" the book of Revelations to be discarded all together. It is NOT the Gospel message of Christ and wasn't taught by the disciples or Paul. The book was written at the time Domitian was terrorizing Christians. And scholars cannot nail down the author. The only men who said it was the Disciple John were Justin Martyr, Ignatius, and a few other catholic fathers. Even at the creation of the Bible, it had as many proponents as opponents to be included in the Codex Vaticanicus.

The book almost follows the Dream Visions of the Hebrew Book of Enoch. Down to the seals, archangels and being cast into the fiery abyss.

The writing style and content does not match that of the author of the Gospel of John or the 3 letters.

In study, I dropped it for the reason of no spiritual value or knowledge. It is a "stick" for the Catholic Orthodox ideology as also was the Apocalypse of Peter (read at Easter) for many centuries.

It is an instrument of confusion that has never been figured out, and a waste of time for pursuing spiritual knowledge. It is also against the Pauline teaching:

Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
 
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SBC

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Okay, question. What do you consider the Second Beast of Revelation to be?

Rev 4
[7] And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.

Gen 1
[24] And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

[25] And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Rev 4
[7] And the first beast was like a lion,
(non-domesticated ie wild animals, mankind not given dominion over)

and the second beast like a calf,
(animals domesticated ie mans dominion over)

and the third beast had a face as a man,
(mankind, with authority ie, dominion: over, fouls, fish, creeping things, earth).

and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
(fouls of the air, mankinds dominion over.)

Okay, question. What do you consider the Second Beast of Revelation to be?

ONE part of FOUR living things God created to occupy the Earth; which THAT give praise and Glory to their creator, thy Lord God Almighty.

Rev 4
[8] And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
[9] And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever;


The elders are in agreement with them, (those beasts), who give glory and honor to the Lord.

God Bless,
SBC

 
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Phantasman

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lol......

It IS pretty effective in scaring people. It's got as many threads on here as love.

The love of God in truth is a better magnet than something written to give a view of damnation.

I try to use the carrot effectively over a stick.
 
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Noxot

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I think you were right though we have to remember that people are not just evil, they are caught in a struggle of good vs evil and the book of revelation represents such.

so it's an complex explanation of the process from death to life that we go through.

this first beast is the root of evil, which is a spiritual problem. take note of the seven heads and how there is also 7 good spirits mentioned elsewhere in this book.

Rev 13:1 (YLT)
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and I saw out of the sea a beast coming up, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon its horns ten diadems, and upon its heads a name of evil speaking,


notice the duality here. two horns. second beast that came. it's a lamb but speaks like a dragon. this is the law that sin warps to it's own devices, it is Christ crucified. it is Christianity fallen away. it is the innocence of our spirit being warped and controlled by evils. it's the second person of the Trinity, fully God and fully human, the Son of God.

Rev 13:11 (YLT)
And I saw another beast coming up out of the land, and it had two horns, like a lamb, and it was speaking as a dragon,


this is a symbol of Christ. he stands upon both the sea and land thus showing mastery over this spiritual problem symbolized in the two beast. but notice the little scroll. also notice the seven thunders, this is once again a symbol of the original reality and in Christ all things are ordered properly but when the spiritual is disordered into a lesser order it becomes evil spirits. so you see the lion roar is a symbol of God and this is how one has full integrity of their being, by attachment to God. those things they spoke may not be written because chiefly one is to live in them and when you only read about them they may become serpents distorted by sin to turn good into evil and evil into good.

Rev 10:1-4 (YLT)
And I saw another strong messenger coming down out of the heaven, arrayed with a cloud, and a rainbow upon the head, and his face as the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire, and he had in his hand a little scroll opened, and he did place his right foot upon the sea, and the left upon the land, and he cried with a great voice, as a lion doth roar, and when he cried, speak out did the seven thunders their voices; and when the seven thunders spake their voices, I was about to write, and I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, `Seal the things that the seven thunders spake,' and, `Thou mayest not write these things.'


this little scroll is the simple Spirit of God and also the lions voice but it also depicts sin warping and distorting which is why the duality here is shown that it taste sweet but became bitter in the belly.

Rev 10:8-10 (YLT)
And the voice that I heard out of the heaven is again speaking with me, and saying, `Go, take the little scroll that is open in the hand of the messenger who hath been standing upon the sea, and upon the land:' and I went away unto the messenger, saying to him, `Give me the little scroll;' and he saith to me, `Take, and eat it up, and it shall make thy belly bitter, but in thy mouth it shall be sweet--as honey.' And I took the little scroll out of the hand of the messenger, and did eat it up, and it was in my mouth as honey--sweet, and when I did eat it--my belly was made bitter;


also notice that the whole process is summed up in 7s because it's speaking of a spiritual process. and the total fulfillment is 7+1 = 8, because the seven spirits + Gods kingdom which is the new birth and new creation. 8 is the symbol for new beginning. but in the process when we are still struggling and confused by sin we see 10 horns because 7 +3 = 10. 10 is the ten commandments, it is the symbol of the law that sinners learn to know the difference between good and evil. 1 and 3 are important because they denote divine perfection or the trinity. but as you see the 10 horns end up being 7 + 1 little one which represents Christ even though at first his image is warped into antichrist.


Rev 12:3-4 (YLT)
And there was seen another sign in the heaven, and, lo, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his head seven diadems, and his tail doth draw the third of the stars of the heaven, and he did cast them to the earth; and the dragon did stand before the woman who is about to bring forth, that when she may bring forth, her child he may devour;

there is so much to be said. notice the seven diadems. they end up belonging to Christ. diadems are symbolic of individual souls. notice the name written that no one knows except himself and how that is one of the promises of overcoming.

Rev 19:11-13 (YLT)
And I saw the heaven having been opened, and lo, a white horse, and he who is sitting upon it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness doth he judge and war, and his eyes are as a flame of fire, and upon his head are many diadems--having a name written that no one hath known, except himself, and he is arrayed with a garment covered with blood, and his name is called, The Word of God.

Phil 4:1 (YLT)
So then, my brethren, beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand ye in the Lord, beloved.

people who really love God always give or point people to God and not keep and rule over others for themselves. also notice the "glory, honor, and power" which are probably 3 of the 10 horns and this is important for man that they do give glory honor and power to God rather than keep for themselves since they tend to get puffed up by those 3 things and when we try to rule over or seem well esteemed by men thus wanting glory, honor, and power. but being united to God is infinitely more glory, honor, and power which is why the little horn gets rid of those 3 horns.

Rev 4:10-11 (YLT)
fall down do the twenty and four elders before Him who is sitting upon the throne, and bow before Him who is living to the ages of the ages, and they cast their crowns before the throne, saying, `Worthy art Thou, O Lord, to receive the glory, and the honour, and the power, because Thou--Thou didst create the all things, and because of Thy will are they, and they were created.'

which is why you can see that the harlot is drunk on the blood of the saints, because she is confused at the saints teachings and becomes captive to them due to her not trying to be a spiritual virgin towards God. also notice the name written 'secret' because the harlot ends up being the virgin once she is saved and so the name is only known to that one who is saved and it can't be revealed because the name is their unique spirit in union with God.

Rev 17:5-6 (YLT)
and upon her forehead was a name written: `Secret, Babylon the Great, the Mother of the harlots, and the Abominations of the earth.' And I saw the woman drunken from the blood of the saints, and from the blood of the witnesses of Jesus, and I did wonder--having seen her--with great wonder;



notice it says he will give us hidden manna to eat. just like the prophet in this book ate the little scroll that was sweet but turned bitter in his belly. but if we are pure virgins rather than a drunken harlot it shall only be sweet and good spiritual food as God intends it to be.

Rev 2:17 (YLT)
He who is having an ear--let him hear what the Spirit saith to the assemblies: To him who is overcoming, I will give to him to eat from the hidden manna, and will give to him a white stone, and upon the stone a new name written, that no one knew except him who is receiving it .


this progression of beast shows things such as the development of mankind and the various stages he has gone through and how this beast somewhat shape-shifts over time as he grows and develops because it is the spirit of humanity, which is why Christ became man and then became part of this spirit, though this was a spiritual process that was reflected in time due to our nature as both creatures and spirits.

this symbol is actually a symbol of both something good and something evil, depending on where you are in the spiritual life, if you are still ruled by sin or if you are in the kingdom with God and in union with him.

Dan 7:7-8 (YLT)
`After this I was seeing in the visions of the night, and lo, a fourth beast, terrible and fearful, and exceedingly strong; and it hath iron teeth very great, it hath consumed, yea, it doth break small, and the remnant with its feet it hath trampled; and it is diverse from all the beasts that are before it; and it hath ten horns. `I was considering about the horns, and lo, another horn, a little one, hath come up between them, and three of the first horns have been eradicated from before it, and lo, eyes as the eyes of man are in this horn, and a mouth speaking great things.

the five fell. that is the 5 finger. the sensual or the flesh. 6 is, because man was made on the 6th day, 6 is mans number. 7 is the symbol for spiritual rest, it is spiritual man and he remains for a little time because in Gods rest we become new creatures (8). you see when it talks about the beast it says he is the 8th but he goes to destruction because in the completion of Gods rest the beast or flesh is destroyed and the divine life or the new birth reigns in the kingdom of heaven forever and ever.

Rev 17:9-11 (YLT)
`Here is the mind that is having wisdom; the seven heads are seven mountains, upon which the woman doth sit, and there are seven kings, the five did fall, and the one is, the other did not yet come, and when he may come, it behoveth him to remain a little time; and the beast that was, and is not, he also is eighth, and out of the seven he is, and to destruction he doth go away.


so you could see the death of the beast as Christ crucified. or the slain lamb that has seven horns and seven eyes which is the one worthy to open the seal that is God or the divine spark hidden in us. so we die to our old nature and Gods divine seed hidden in us resurrects us to everlasting life.
 
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SBC

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lol......

It IS pretty effective in scaring people. It's got as many threads on here as love.

The love of God in truth is a better magnet than something written to give a view of damnation.

I try to use the carrot effectively over a stick.

I simply disagree with you concerning Revelations.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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SBC

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The second beast is, I am inclined to think, the United States of America with its societally-expected America and flag worship, directed toward a government which is built in the image of ancient Rome.

You think a country called the US, is like a calf, and day and night sit before the Throne saying holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty?

I don't.

Rev 4
[7] And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
[8] And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

God Bless,
SBC
 
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Left

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You think a country called the US, is like a calf, and day and night sit before the Throne saying holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty?

I don't.

Rev 4
[7] And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
[8] And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

God Bless,
SBC

We're talking about the second beast which had two horns like a lamb, but spoke as a dragon.
 
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stillwaters45

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You think a country called the US, is like a calf, and day and night sit before the Throne saying holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty?

I don't.

Rev 4
[7] And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
[8] And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

God Bless,
SBC
We are talking about the second beast, not the second living creature (the Greek words are different; only the KJV mistranslates living creature as 'beast'). Have you read Daniel? Persia is a bear, Greece a ram. It isn't literal, but apocalyptic imagery.
 
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