SDA Question

[Cliff2]

They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

Read the full quote, don't pick out the parts that you think support your claims and not take it all.

"The Bible is the standard..."

 

[Airdude]

Is the following a fundamental belief of the SDA or not:
18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

Yes it is a fundamental belief of the SDA church, notice the line that says " the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested." Mrs. White has not changed anything about the Bible. She has only tried to help us interpret it.

 

[FreeinChrist]

And please note the statment includes this - and I make a few words bold:


As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction.


Sorry but this does more than show that the SDA church considers White as more than a commentary.

 

[Airdude]

And please note the statment includes this - and I make a few words bold:


As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction.


Sorry but this does more than show that the SDA church considers White as more than a commentary.

This does not in any way put Mrs. White on an equall or higher plane than the Bible. The Bible is and always has been the basis for all doctrine in the church.

 

[deu58]

Hello Airdude

Who said anything about Jesus going into a secret chamber? The teaching that you are refering to places Jesus in the "Most Holy" place of the Heavenly Sanctuary. There is no secret about which chamber He may have gone into.

It is secret in the sense that it can not be seen or verified by anyone, It is a non Biblical prophesy in the sense that all prophesy is for us to witness and know that God has confirmed it by bringing it to pass in the plain sight of Man,

The Sanctuary doctrine does not fit the Biblical mode of prophetic fulfillment, We know that there are still some Prophecies that need to come to pass because we have not wittnessed their fufillment,

The sanctuary doctrine which states that Jesus did not enter the holy of holies of the heavenly temple untill Oct 22 1844 was seen by one man in a supposed vision,

Then confirmed by a false prophetess,


Mt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Mt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Jesus plainly says do not listen to anyone who says he is here, or there or gone into a secret chamber, Jesus did not come in 1844, Your pioneers said that is because he went into the inner chambers of the temple,

Jesus plainly said do not listen to people like you because we have know idea when he coming, He will just be here, Bang, Just like in the days of Noah,

You have to have faith that Ellen G White is truly a prophetess of God to believe this vision because there is no other way to confirm it,

Not to mention that you have to pretend that the Book of Hebrews was never written!!!!


Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Every thing considering the atonement work is written in the past tense, Hebrews was written long before 1844 and the work of Christ as the High priest in the Holy of Holies was then preserved in scripture for us as a finished work,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Cliff2]

Hello Airdude




It is secret in the sense that it can not be seen or verified by anyone, It is a non Biblical prophesy in the sense that all prophesy is for us to witness and know that God has confirmed it by bringing it to pass in the plain sight of Man,

The Sanctuary doctrine does not fit the Biblical mode of prophetic fulfillment, We know that there are still some Prophecies that need to come to pass because we have not wittnessed their fufillment,

The sanctuary doctrine which states that Jesus did not enter the holy of holies of the heavenly temple untill Oct 22 1844 was seen by one man in a supposed vision,

Then confirmed by a false prophetess,


Mt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Mt 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Jesus plainly says do not listen to anyone who says he is here, or there or gone into a secret chamber, Jesus did not come in 1844, Your pioneers said that is because he went into the inner chambers of the temple,

Jesus plainly said do not listen to people like you because we have know idea when he coming, He will just be here, Bang, Just like in the days of Noah,

You have to have faith that Ellen G White is truly a prophetess of God to believe this vision because there is no other way to confirm it,

Not to mention that you have to pretend that the Book of Hebrews was never written!!!!


Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Every thing considering the atonement work is written in the past tense, Hebrews was written long before 1844 and the work of Christ as the High priest in the Holy of Holies was then preserved in scripture for us as a finished work,

yours in Christ
deu 58

The Sanctuary doctrine can stand on the Bible and the Bible alone.

Even if I was to show you and explain to you what and where it is you would still not believe. Just look at how you respond to the Sabbath after you have been shown I do not know how many times.

 

[SearchingSDA]

This does not in any way put Mrs. White on an equall or higher plane than the Bible. The Bible is and always has been the basis for all doctrine in the church.

No. I think she put herself just a little bit higher.

" Yet now when I send you a testimony of warning and reproof, many of you declare it to be merely the opinion of Sister White. You have thereby insulted the Spirit of God. Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 5, p. 661. "

" My commission embraces the work of a prophet, but it does not end there." (Selected Messages, vol. 1, p. 36, 1906) "

" Why have I not claimed to be a prophet?--Because in these days many who boldly claim that they are prophets are a reproach to the cause of Christ; and because my work includes much more than the word 'prophet' signifies." (Review and Herald, July 26, 1907) "

 

[SearchingSDA]

Wow, how did we do that? We weren't even organized as a church until 1863! You give us a lot of credit for things that happened before our existance. The Millerites were made up of people from many religious backgrounds who were seeking a better understanding of the Bible. The founders of our church did come from that movement, but before 1863 they had realized their error in trying to set dates. The SDA church does not deny this.

Here is a good summary of the 1844 disappointment and the subsequent understanding of the 2300 day prophecy.

http://english.sdaglobal.org/doctrine/disappoint.htm

Sounds like the author of your "good summary" takes it as credit.

" Seventh-day Adventists trace their origin to the Millerite movement. It is estimated that about 50,000 souls in America looked for Christ to come on October 22, 1844. They had been cast out by their respective churches. The resulting disappointment left some 50 faithful souls who held together to form a nucleus that, after accepting the Sabbath truth, organized the SDA church in 1863.

Today people like to embellish the tale of the Disappointment as a spicy American folklore of religious fanaticism. So people point at us and say, ¡§You Adventists are followers of a deluded fanatic.¡¨ No, we reply, we are a people foretold in Bible prophecy. The Disappointment is proof that Adventists fulfilled the prophecy of John eating the book that was sweet in his mouth but bitter in his belly. After the Disappointment, Hiram Edson wrote, ¡§We have eaten the little book that was sweet in our mouth, but now bitter in our belly.¡¨

 

[Cliff2]

This does not in any way put Mrs. White on an equall or higher plane than the Bible. The Bible is and always has been the basis for all doctrine in the church. Airdude

Correct

 

[Airdude]

Not to mention that you have to pretend that the Book of Hebrews was never written!!!!


Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

We don't have any problem with anything in the book of Hebrews or any other book in the New Testament or the Old Testament. They are all God's inspired word. So, why do you choose to throw out the Old Testament?

 

[Airdude]

No. I think she put herself just a little bit higher.

" Yet now when I send you a testimony of warning and reproof, many of you declare it to be merely the opinion of Sister White. You have thereby insulted the Spirit of God. Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 5, p. 661. "

" My commission embraces the work of a prophet, but it does not end there." (Selected Messages, vol. 1, p. 36, 1906) "

" Why have I not claimed to be a prophet?--Because in these days many who boldly claim that they are prophets are a reproach to the cause of Christ; and because my work includes much more than the word 'prophet' signifies." (Review and Herald, July 26, 1907) "

Your opinion does not surprise me at all. Most of the Old Testament prophets were rejected by the Jews. Jesus was also rejected when He returned to His hometown.

 

[SearchingSDA]

Your opinion does not surprise me at all. Most of the Old Testament prophets were rejected by the Jews. Jesus was also rejected when He returned to His hometown.

Where do you see my opinion? What I posted are quotes directly from EGW writings.

This does not in any way put Mrs. White on an equall or higher plane than the Bible. The Bible is and always has been the basis for all doctrine in the church.

" Yet now when I send you a testimony of warning and reproof, many of you declare it to be merely the opinion of Sister White. You have thereby insulted the Spirit of God. (Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 5, p. 661.) "

" My commission embraces the work of a prophet, but it does not end there." (Selected Messages, vol. 1, p. 36, 1906) "

" Why have I not claimed to be a prophet?--Because in these days many who boldly claim that they are prophets are a reproach to the cause of Christ; and because my work includes much more than the word 'prophet' signifies." (Review and Herald, July 26, 1907) "

 

[deu58]

Hello airdude

This does not in any way put Mrs. White on an equall or higher plane than the Bible. The Bible is and always has been the basis for all doctrine in the church.

"The Holy Ghost is the Author of the Scriptures and of the Spirit of Prophecy."
{Selected Messages,Vol.3 p.30}

"These books contain clear ,straight, unalterable truth and they should be certainly appreciated The instruction they contain is not of human production" {Letter h-339,Dec 26,1904}

"I beg of you for Christ sake to consider what I say :for I say it not of myself. It is the word of God to you" {Letter 25b, 1895,pp 1-3 to Brother and Sister Hare, April 1895}




yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[deu58]

Some of the church got very much excited over the course elder Cranmer proposed to pursue in regard to the "shut-door" question, and Mr. George Leighton went to Battle Creek to confer with elder White on the subject. On his return, Mr. Leighton said that elder White told him not to let elder Cranmer preach to the church at Otsego. According to my recollection of the matter elder Cranmer then wrote to Battle Creek and requested a decision as to whether they considered him a pastor, and as to his right to preach among them. The result of their conclusion in the matter was that they refused him the privilege of preaching to them or for them for the reason that he did not hold the visions of Ellen G. White to be inspired. Mr. Leighton said in our presence that the visions were inspired, that they were better than the Bible because they were warm and fresh from the throne of God, and that anyone who did not accept them as inspiration absolutely would be damned. The visions were made a test of fellowship from that time. These statements we solemnly aver to be true, and we were members of the Seventh-day Adventist Church in Otsego at the time.


Joseph J. Perkins
Louise H. Perkins
Galesburgh, Michigan



In regard to the visions of E.G. White, we never could believe they were from God. We often tried to feel right about them, and tried to reconcile them with the word, but never could We have been judged, condemned and rejected by those that we expected better things from on account of it.
George and Jane Stults
(Hope of Israel, Jul. 10, 1866)
Part of a statement from parishioners of Gilbert Cranmer

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Airdude]

"The Holy Ghost is the Author of the Scriptures and of the Spirit of Prophecy."
{Selected Messages,Vol.3 p.30}

"These books contain clear ,straight, unalterable truth and they should be certainly appreciated The instruction they contain is not of human production" {Letter h-339,Dec 26,1904}

"I beg of you for Christ sake to consider what I say :for I say it not of myself. It is the word of God to you" {Letter 25b, 1895,pp 1-3 to Brother and Sister Hare, April 1895}

Why are these a problem? She is not trying to elevate herself above the Bible. She was fulfulling her role as a messenger of God. There is nothing in these statements that contradicts scripture in any way. You may choose to disagree with her. Every one of the Old Testament prophets had their detractors as well. You seem to be much more concerned about her than I am.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Why are these a problem? She is not trying to elevate herself above the Bible. She was fulfulling her role as a messenger of God. There is nothing in these statements that contradicts scripture in any way. You may choose to disagree with her. Every one of the Old Testament prophets had their detractors as well. You seem to be much more concerned about her than I am.

She added greatly to scripture.
An she is not close to being on par with the OT prophets! If anything she is a false prophet.

 

[Airdude]

She added greatly to scripture.

Please tell me how she added to scripture. She offers explanations of scripture not unlike many other authors.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Please tell me how she added to scripture. She offers explanations of scripture not unlike many other authors.

I already have. Some was reposted in #394:


" Lucifer himself did not at first see whither he was drifting; he did not understand the real nature of his feelings. But as his dissatisfaction was proved to be without cause, Lucifer was convinced that he was in the wrong, that the divine claims were just, and that he ought to acknowledge them as such before all heaven. Had he done this, he might have saved himself and many angels. He had not at this time fully cast off his allegiance to God. Though he had forsaken his position as covering cherub, yet if he had been willing to return to God, acknowledging the Creator's wisdom, and satisfied to fill the place appointed him in God's great plan, he would have been reinstated in his office. But pride forbade him to submit. He persistently defended his own course, maintained that he had no need of repentance, and fully committed himself, in the great controversy, against his Maker."


There is nothing inscripture that says God was willing to reinstate Satan in his position had he returned to God!
And this:
"The heavenly councils pleaded with Lucifer."
There is nothing in scripture that this occurred.
Ellen White added to scripture.

 

[Cliff2]

I already have. Some was reposted in #394:


" Lucifer himself did not at first see whither he was drifting; he did not understand the real nature of his feelings. But as his dissatisfaction was proved to be without cause, Lucifer was convinced that he was in the wrong, that the divine claims were just, and that he ought to acknowledge them as such before all heaven. Had he done this, he might have saved himself and many angels. He had not at this time fully cast off his allegiance to God. Though he had forsaken his position as covering cherub, yet if he had been willing to return to God, acknowledging the Creator's wisdom, and satisfied to fill the place appointed him in God's great plan, he would have been reinstated in his office. But pride forbade him to submit. He persistently defended his own course, maintained that he had no need of repentance, and fully committed himself, in the great controversy, against his Maker."


There is nothing inscripture that says God was willing to reinstate Satan in his position had he returned to God!
And this:
"The heavenly councils pleaded with Lucifer."
There is nothing in scripture that this occurred.
Ellen White added to scripture.

Is there anything in Scripture to say that we should not smoke or take drugs?

By saying not to smoke or take drugs in my book is not adding to Scripture.

You are only trying to find ways of puting doubt into peoples minds.

Try something uplifting for a change.

 

[deu58]

Hello Cliff

Is there anything in Scripture to say that we should not smoke or take drugs?

By saying not to smoke or take drugs in my book is not adding to Scripture.

You are only trying to find ways of puting doubt into peoples minds.

Try something uplifting for a change.

Yes there is, The body is the temple of the holy spirit, Anything that harms or defiles the temple should not be partaken of,

If there was no bodily harm in smoking then it would not be a sin and there would be nothing wrong with it at all,