SDA Question

[WalksWithChrist]

The big deal is this, it just blows away so many beliefes that many other church groups have. You can't pray to the saints if they are sleeping in the ground.

Paul is saying here that the righteous dead will rise first. They can't be in heaven if they rise from the ground first.

The Bible say that only God is immortal.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.

In the raising of Lazarus Jesus says plainly that sleep is really dead.
John 11



1Now a certain man was sick, named Lazarus, of Bethany, the town of Mary and her sister Martha.

2(It was that Mary which anointed the Lord with ointment, and wiped his feet with her hair, whose brother Lazarus was sick.)

3Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick.

4When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

5Now Jesus loved Martha, and her sister, and Lazarus.

6When he had heard therefore that he was sick, he abode two days still in the same place where he was.

7Then after that saith he to his disciples, Let us go into Judaea again.

8His disciples say unto him, Master, the Jews of late sought to stone thee; and goest thou thither again?

9Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbleth not, because he seeth the light of this world.

10But if a man walk in the night, he stumbleth, because there is no light in him.

11These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

12Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.

13Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

14Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

15And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.

16Then said Thomas, which is called Didymus, unto his fellowdisciples, Let us also go, that we may die with him.

17Then when Jesus came, he found that he had lain in the grave four days already.

18Now Bethany was nigh unto Jerusalem, about fifteen furlongs off:

19And many of the Jews came to Martha and Mary, to comfort them concerning their brother.

20Then Martha, as soon as she heard that Jesus was coming, went and met him: but Mary sat still in the house.

21Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.

22But I know, that even now, whatsoever thou wilt ask of God, God will give it thee.

23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

25Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

27She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

28And when she had so said, she went her way, and called Mary her sister secretly, saying, The Master is come, and calleth for thee.

29As soon as she heard that, she arose quickly, and came unto him.

30Now Jesus was not yet come into the town, but was in that place where Martha met him.

31The Jews then which were with her in the house, and comforted her, when they saw Mary, that she rose up hastily and went out, followed her, saying, She goeth unto the grave to weep there.

32Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died.

33When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled.

34And said, Where have ye laid him? They said unto him, Lord, come and see.

35Jesus wept.

36Then said the Jews, Behold how he loved him!

37And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?

38Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it.

39Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days.

40Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

41Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me.

42And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

43And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. 44And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

I'm even more confused now! Ok, I've got a scripture reference...now what is the SDA official and unofficial position on soul sleep? How does it work exactly?

 

[deu58]

Hello Clarry

These people that made the claims werte Methodists, Baptists, Chruch of England, but not Seventh-day Adventists. There weren't any at that time.

These people you mention left their churchs to join the Millerite movement, They condemned their brothers and sisters to die in hell for not acceptiing Millers teachings, They all became either 1st day adventist or eventually 7th day adventists under Ellen G White after the Oct 22 Great Disappointment

Even after ALL the time setting failures they still condemned those who would not join them.

Even today your church teaches a message of death to those who will not accept your prophetess and Sabbath for salvation message. your incomplete atonements and etc etc,

 

[FreeinChrist]

Of course there is not a scripture saying these things. No one ever said EGW was quoting scripture here. She was simply providing commentary. She has neither added or taken away from scripture with these statements.

She added to scripture a great deal with her statements in the Great Controversy, espeically when she is taken as a prophetess by the members of the SDA.

 

[FreeinChrist]

So, do you suppose that Satan just changed his attitude and became evil overnight? I would say that too is fantasy.

I believe it changed as it said in scripture:
Eze 28:15 "You were blameless in your ways From the day you were created Until unrighteousness was found in you.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Hello Clarry



These people you mention left their churchs to join the Millerite movement, They condemned their brothers and sisters to die in hell for not acceptiing Millers teachings, They all became either 1st day adventist or eventually 7th day adventists under Ellen G White after the Oct 22 Great Disappointment

Even after ALL the time setting failures they still condemned those who would not join them.

Even today your church teaches a message of death to those who will not accept your prophetess and Sabbath for salvation message. your incomplete atonements and etc etc,

I think the Jehovah Witnesses were also born from the Great Disappointment of 1844.

 

[Cliff2]

Hello Clarry



These people you mention left their churchs to join the Millerite movement, They condemned their brothers and sisters to die in hell for not acceptiing Millers teachings, They all became either 1st day adventist or eventually 7th day adventists under Ellen G White after the Oct 22 Great Disappointment

Even after ALL the time setting failures they still condemned those who would not join them.

Even today your church teaches a message of death to those who will not accept your prophetess and Sabbath for salvation message. your incomplete atonements and etc etc,

History shows that very few became Seventh-day Adventists.

We do not say what you claim here at all. Listen to 3ABN and you would hear that God has His people in all churches and many will be saved from those people.

The Sabbath or any other commandment will not save anyone.

 

[Cliff2]

I'm even more confused now! Ok, I've got a scripture reference...now what is the SDA official and unofficial position on soul sleep? How does it work exactly?

What i qoted is what happens.

When a person dies they stay in the ground as did Lazarus. Jesus said Lazarus was asleep and the people said he was already starting to smell. Then Jesus told them Lazarus was dead. As far as Jesus was concerned sleep in the grave and being dead was the same thing.

If Lazarus was in fact in heaven why would Jesus raise him from the dead. We do not go to heaven or hell when we die. We wait in the ground with not thought or ability to think.

The power to live returns to God. that is the spark of life taht returns to Him. Not some so called soul that is in heaven awaiting to be connected to flesh and bones in the resurrection and become a body.

 

[deu58]

What i qoted is what happens.

When a person dies they stay in the ground as did Lazarus. Jesus said Lazarus was asleep and the people said he was already starting to smell. Then Jesus told them Lazarus was dead. As far as Jesus was concerned sleep in the grave and being dead was the same thing.

If Lazarus was in fact in heaven why would Jesus raise him from the dead. We do not go to heaven or hell when we die. We wait in the ground with not thought or ability to think.

The power to live returns to God. that is the spark of life taht returns to Him. Not some so called soul that is in heaven awaiting to be connected to flesh and bones in the resurrection and become a body.

Then what are all these people doing in Heaven???

Re 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Re 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number *, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Re 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Re 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Your teaching actually denies the resurrection, And you mock the soul of Man that God has created,

As far as Jesus was concerned sleep in the grave and being dead was the same thing.

Not according to the Bible.

Mt 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

Mt 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.


1pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death * in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;


yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Cliff2]

Then what are all these people doing in Heaven???

Re 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

Re 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number *, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Re 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Re 19:1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

Your teaching actually denies the resurrection, And you mock the soul of Man that God has created,


Not according to the Bible.

Mt 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,

Mt 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.


1pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death * in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;


yours in Christ
deu 58

To start with the book of Revelation is a book of symbols so you need to interpret Revelation keeping in mind what the rest of the Bible says.

The rest of the Bible says that the dead know nothing, not just once but many times.

So take that into account when dealing with Revelation.

Genesis 4:10
And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

Tell me, was Cain's blood really crying out from the ground?

So it is with much of Revelation.

What you have done is put the scene shown to John in a different time than what it was meant to be.

Put it in the right time frame and you will have no problems.

Psalm 115:17
The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Matthew 9:18
While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

Why would Jesus bring her back to life if in fact she had went to heaven?

Matthew 28:7
And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.

Jesus rose from the grave, where do you think He was at from Friday afternoon until Sunday morning?

Mark 5:39
And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.

As far as Jesus was concerned being dead and "sleepeth" was the same thing.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

What i qoted is what happens.

When a person dies they stay in the ground as did Lazarus. Jesus said Lazarus was asleep and the people said he was already starting to smell. Then Jesus told them Lazarus was dead. As far as Jesus was concerned sleep in the grave and being dead was the same thing.

If Lazarus was in fact in heaven why would Jesus raise him from the dead. We do not go to heaven or hell when we die. We wait in the ground with not thought or ability to think.

The power to live returns to God. that is the spark of life taht returns to Him. Not some so called soul that is in heaven awaiting to be connected to flesh and bones in the resurrection and become a body.

That's much better. Thank you.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

To start with the book of Revelation is a book of symbols so you need to interpret Revelation keeping in mind what the rest of the Bible says.

The rest of the Bible says that the dead know nothing, not just once but many times.

So take that into account when dealing with Revelation.

Genesis 4:10
And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

Tell me, was Cain's blood really crying out from the ground?

So it is with much of Revelation.

What you have done is put the scene shown to John in a different time than what it was meant to be.

Put it in the right time frame and you will have no problems.

Psalm 115:17
The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

Matthew 9:18
While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live.

Why would Jesus bring her back to life if in fact she had went to heaven?

Matthew 28:7
And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.

Jesus rose from the grave, where do you think He was at from Friday afternoon until Sunday morning?

Mark 5:39
And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.

As far as Jesus was concerned being dead and "sleepeth" was the same thing.

Hmm. I feel I should point out that Jesus spoke using symbols quite often as he knew people needed that. When Jesus spoke plainly they often didn't understand him at all. Consider that Jesus may have been speaking symbolically when he refered to Lazarus.

 

[Cliff2]

Hmm. I feel I should point out that Jesus spoke using symbols quite often as he knew people needed that. When Jesus spoke plainly they often didn't understand him at all. Consider that Jesus may have been speaking symbolically when he refered to Lazarus.

When Jesus spoke in parables He painly said so, like "The Rich Man and Lazarus"

It was only a parable, symbols, not doctrine.

 

[deu58]

Hello cliff

When Jesus spoke in parables He painly said so, like "The Rich Man and Lazarus"



It was only a parable, symbols, not doctrine.

The problem with this cliff is that this is not really a parable,

The Jews did have to scratch their heads to try and figure out what he was saying, They knew what Abrahams bosom was, They knew and understood that hell was real

The only thing that is fictitious is the 2 people in the story,

Jesus never taught that there was no paradise,

Lu 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.

Lu 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

He never taught that there was no Hell.

Mr 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mr 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

This is some pretty simple straight forward language here,

Paul believed that when he died he would go to be with Christ,


Philippians 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
25 And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;
26 That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again.


Paul's choices were two in number: either
(1) stay in the flesh and continue to live on this earth serving God's people, or,
(2) depart and be with Christ.
Where is Christ? Is He in the ground in some type of soul sleep? No, He is in heaven until He returns and the believer joins Him there when each departs at death, that is, when their spirit leaves the body at death as James described. Paul again repeated himself in 2 Corinthians:
2 Corinthians 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
Simply stated. while he is in his body, he is absent from the Lord's heavenly presence. When he will be absent from the body, he will no longer be 'absent from the Lord." There is no mention of an intermediate state of soul sleep.




<B>James described the dead of a person:

<B>James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.



​

In other words, when a person dies, his body dies and the spirit leaves the body:



<B>

WITHOUT 5565. choris, kho-rece'; adv. from G5561; at a space, i.e. separately or apart from (often as prep.):--beside, by itself, without.</B>



​

In Genesis 35, we read this about the soul departing from Rachel when she died,



<B>

18 And it came to pass, as her soul was in departing, (for she died) that she called his name Benoni: but his father called him Benjamin.

19 And Rachel died, and was buried in the way to Ephrath, which is Bethlehem


​

One of the most important scriptures refuting soul sleep is found in Ephesians and it concerns Christ and His resurrection:




</B></B></B>

Ephesians 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)


​

Jesus lead captivity captive when He descended into the lower parts of the earth. In other words, He descended and then ascended out of their taking with Him a host of captives (those who waited for His coming). That they were there waiting to be lead out shows the non-existence of soul sleep:


Peter repeats this apostolic teaching,


At death, the spirits of men of faith were held captive in Hades and released from there when Jesus descended there after His death

1pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death * in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;


1pe 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.

1pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged * according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.


Jesus preached to spirits held captive, whether they be the spirits of those in Noah's days or not. He didn't preach to a sleeping crowd.

Finally, it is only speculation on your part that the Revelation which tells us that the souls of the martyrs and the saints are in heaven before the resurrection on the last day is only symbolic,

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.


Jesus argued with the Saddaucee's that their belief that there is nothing after death was scripturally incorrect, Mark 12:26 And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?
27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err
.

When God spoke to Moses, Jesus said said to him that He was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. In other words, when God spoke to Moses at the burning bush, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob had already lived and died. Yet Jesus said God was their God even now, the God of the living in the present, meaning, though these three had died physically, their spirits were not dead. Nor did He mention their spirits were asleep. In other words, their spirits were alive, God was their God, even while their bodies laid in the ground.


The bodies of these three were dead and buried at the time Jesus spoke of them. He spoke of them spiritually, though, as being alive. He mentioned God as the God of the living, not the God of those asleep whether in or out of their bodies, as some propose, that after death men's spirits slept in their bodies until the resurrection and were basically unconscious. He said that God meant He was "the God of the living" when He spoke to Moses and when Jesus spoke to the men of His time,

yours in Christ
deu 58



​

 

[Cliff2]

The problem with this cliff is that this is not really a parable,

The Jews did have to scratch their heads to try and figure out what he was saying, They knew what Abrahams bosom was, They knew and understood that hell was real. (deu58)

There was a certain man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate full of sores, and desiring to be fed the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table, moreover, the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died, and was buried. And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, "Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, "Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receiveth thy good tidings, and likewise Lazarus evil things: But now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that they which would pass from hence to you, cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence." Then he said, "I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldst send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren: that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment." Abraham said unto him, "They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them." And he said, "Nay, father Abraham: But if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent." And he said unto him, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:19-31

I suggest that you check this site out.

Becasue of time I cannot read everything it says right now but the start of what is said is good.

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Lazarus.html

 

[deu58]

Hello cliff

There was a certain man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate full of sores, and desiring to be fed the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table, moreover, the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died, and was buried. And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, "Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, "Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receiveth thy good tidings, and likewise Lazarus evil things: But now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that they which would pass from hence to you, cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence." Then he said, "I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldst send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren: that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment." Abraham said unto him, "They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them." And he said, "Nay, father Abraham: But if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent." And he said unto him, "If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rose from the dead." Luke 16:19-31

I suggest that you check this site out.

Becasue of time I cannot read everything it says right now but the start of what is said is good.

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Lazarus.html

As usual you completely dismiss the over all teaching of the New Testament and cling to your church's doctrine,

In light of what Jesus and his apostles taught all the way through to Rev, Your dog does only not hunt he can not even get off the porch, Poor thing is dead

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Airdude]

She added to scripture a great deal with her statements in the Great Controversy, espeically when she is taken as a prophetess by the members of the SDA.

Using that kind of logic you shouldn't read anyones commentary on biblical matters.

 

[SearchingSDA]

Using that kind of logic you shouldn't read anyones commentary on biblical matters.

Does this sound like somebody who is just a Bible Commentator?

Yet now when I send you a testimony of warning and reproof, many of you declare it to be merely the opinion of Sister White. You have thereby insulted the Spirit of God. Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 5, p. 661.

Those who are reproved by the Spirit of God should not rise up against the humble instrument. It is God, and not an erring mortal, who has spoken to save them from ruin. Testimonies for the Church, Vol. 3, p. 257.

 

[Airdude]

Then you actually built your foundational doctrine on the belief that Jesus actually went in to the secret chambers, Something else that the bible very plainly tells not to listen to because it is a sign of false teaching.

Mt 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Who said anything about Jesus going into a secret chamber? The teaching that you are refering to places Jesus in the "Most Holy" place of the Heavenly Sanctuary. There is no secret about which chamber He may have gone into.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Using that kind of logic you shouldn't read anyones commentary on biblical matters.

I don't believe Fawsett, Jamieson or Brown, or Matthew Henry, or Gill, etc. claimed to be prophets. Is the following a fundamental belief of the SDA or not:
18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

Nor have any of the commentaries I used above create fiction as White did.

 

[Airdude]

Your time setting did not fail just once, It failed twice. Actually if you count the 1851 failure, 3 times, Not to mention that You SDA's insist that Oct 22 1844 was the Jewish day of Atonement, Which plain history verifies it was not,

Wow, how did we do that? We weren't even organized as a church until 1863! You give us a lot of credit for things that happened before our existance. The Millerites were made up of people from many religious backgrounds who were seeking a better understanding of the Bible. The founders of our church did come from that movement, but before 1863 they had realized their error in trying to set dates. The SDA church does not deny this.

Here is a good summary of the 1844 disappointment and the subsequent understanding of the 2300 day prophecy.

http://english.sdaglobal.org/doctrine/disappoint.htm