SDA Question

[Egghead]

That text in know way frees us from the obligation to be obedient to Gods command!

Something else that comes to mind...If we're going to follow the commandment about the sabbath, then why then dont we all follow the REST of the ''commands'' of the Mosaic Law?

There are a great many Levitical laws that were NOT specifically shown to have ended with the new covenant, so why arent you obeying them as well?

Is it only the 10 commmandments that count?


Then why dont we marry sisters and brothers if the 10 are all we need to worry about?
Is it ok to have sex with animals now?

Of course not.
The 10 commandments are NOT complete in representing the whole moral law.
We know we cannot take a sister for a wife anymore than under Mosiac Law.
We follow the moral codes for marraige and sex in the old covenant.

So is it moral to keep ONE day holy and let the rest be unholy?

This isnt about work because, again, JESUS Himself has shown that necessity supercedes the commandment about no work.

So what is it that we do or dont do to keep the sabbath holy?
And are we free to let the other 6 days be unholy?

 

[Cliff2]

Something else that comes to mind...If we're going to follow the commandment about the sabbath, then why then dont we all follow the REST of the ''commands'' of the Mosaic Law?

There are a great many Levitical laws that were NOT specifically shown to have ended with the new covenant, so why arent you obeying them as well?

Is it only the 10 commmandments that count?


Then why dont we marry sisters and brothers if the 10 are all we need to worry about?
Is it ok to have sex with animals now?

Of course not.
The 10 commandments are NOT complete in representing the whole moral law.
We know we cannot take a sister for a wife anymore than under Mosiac Law.
We follow the moral codes for marraige and sex in the old covenant.

So is it moral to keep ONE day holy and let the rest be unholy?

This isnt about work because, again, JESUS Himself has shown that necessity supercedes the commandment about no work.

So what is it that we do or dont do to keep the sabbath holy?
And are we free to let the other 6 days be unholy?

The ceromonial law is not kept now because of the sacrifice that Christ made on the cross for each of us. That is why that law is not kept anymore.

God made one day holy. That does not mean we are to "party" on the other six and then come the 7th day, keep it holy. Then go back to party mood again.

 

[Egghead]

The ceromonial law is not kept now because of the sacrifice that Christ made on the cross for each of us. That is why that law is not kept anymore.

God made one day holy. That does not mean we are to "party" on the other six and then come the 7th day, keep it holy. Then go back to party mood again.

Keep it holy, fine, I agree.
But of course we know that doesnt include the extreme teaching of not working at all for any circumstance, dont we ?

Jesus permitted His disciples to ''work'' for food as they were hungry and defended Davids breaking of the law over hunger/necessity.
Im quite sure Hed defend the father or mother who had to work to feed and house their children/family

Myself, I prefer to keep to keep them all holy.

 

[Cliff2]

Keep it holy, fine, I agree.
But of course we know that doesnt include the extreme teaching of not working at all for any circumstance, dont we ?

Jesus permitted His disciples to ''work'' for food as they were hungry and defended Davids breaking of the law over hunger/necessity.
Im quite sure Hed defend the father or mother who had to work to feed and house their children/family

Myself, I prefer to keep to keep them all holy.

Can you show me where from the Bible it says to keep every day holy?

 

[Egghead]

Can you show me where from the Bible it says to keep every day holy?

Dont need to.
You just need to learn to accept this.

Who are you to judge another's servant?
To his own master he stands or he falls.
And he shall be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

One indeed judges one day above another; but another judges every day the same.
Let each be fully assured in his own mind.

He that regards the day, regards it to the Lord;
and he that does not regard the day, to the Lord he does not regard it.

And he that eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he that does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and he gives thanks to God.

For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. For whether we live, we live to the Lord; and whether we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live, or whether we die, we are the Lord's.
(Rom 14:4-8)

I am fully convinced and I dont judge those who still seek justification by honoring ONE day.
And I will be judged by none of those who do.

 

[Cliff2]

Dont need to.
You just need to learn to accept this.


I am fully convinced and I dont judge those who still seek justification by honoring ONE day.
And I will be judged by none of those who do.

God only ever made one day holy.

When man tries to make every day holy, he is putting so much pressure on himself that he will never keep even two days a week holy, let alone every day.

I am not sure you fully understand what it means by saying that every day is holy.

Look at what God expects from us on His holy day. To keep seven days like that would not be at all practical.

 

[Normann]

The only SDAists i've met over emphasized worshipping on Saturday so much that i got the impression that it was the be-all-and-end-all doctrine -

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
The Jewish sabbath was a ceremonial ordinance, and a part of that handwriting of ordinances which was to be blotted out by Christ; and consequently the Christian is not obliged to observe it.

Ray

Good post Ray, and if one studies the Old Testament they will find the Jews changed the weekly Sabbath twice a year. Also the command is to first work 6 days, you cannot keep the Sabbath until you have worked six days.

Adam could not keep the same day as God rested on because he was created on day 6 and first had to work six days. In our system if God rested on Saturday, Adam would have been working and not rested until the following Sunday!

There is not scripture to support the idea of an ongoing Saturday Sabbath!

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

 

[Cliff2]

Good post Ray, and if one studies the Old Testament they will find the Jews changed the weekly Sabbath twice a year. Also the command is to first work 6 days, you cannot keep the Sabbath until you have worked six days.

Adam could not keep the same day as God rested on because he was created on day 6 and first had to work six days. In our system if God rested on Saturday, Adam would have been working and not rested until the following Sunday!

There is not scripture to support the idea of an ongoing Saturday Sabbath!

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

Interesting concept, just can't find it in the Bible.

 

[Egghead]

God only ever made one day holy.

When man tries to make every day holy, he is putting so much pressure on himself that he will never keep even two days a week holy, let alone every day.

I am not sure you fully understand what it means by saying that every day is holy.

Look at what God expects from us on His holy day. To keep seven days like that would not be at all practical.

WHERE have I said anything of the sort?
Youre setting up a strawman just to knock it down yourself.

You just need to learn to accept this.

Who are you to judge another's servant?
To his own master he stands or he falls.
And he shall be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

One indeed judges one day above another; but another judges every day the same.
Let each be fully assured in his own mind.

He that regards the day, regards it to the Lord;
and he that does not regard the day, to the Lord he does not regard it.

And he that eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he that does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and he gives thanks to God.

For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. For whether we live, we live to the Lord; and whether we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live, or whether we die, we are the Lord's.
(Rom 14:4-8)

AND I WILL ASK AGAIN......WHY do some of you observe the sabbath LAW...then do NOT observe the WHOLE LAW ?!?

Please stop ignoring the questions I ask !

 

[Egghead]

Look at what God expects from us on His holy day.

Yes......LETS !!!

You shall kindle no fire throughout your living places upon the Sabbath day.
(Exo 35:3)

Ever turn on your stove on the sabbath?

And he said to them, This is that which Jehovah has said, Tomorrow is the rest of the holy sabbath to Jehovah. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil. And that which remains over, lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
(Exo 16:23)

Do you ever pop in some toast, make a poptart, heat up water for coffee, heat up a frozen waffle...etc, etc, etc.....on the sabbath? Honestly?

 

[deu58]

Hi cliff
Ex 16:29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

You always like to say that the Sabbath command was given before Sinai and needs to be obeyed, Well, Part of that commandment for proper sabbath keeping involves staying in your house through out the Sabbath day,

Do you go out on the Sabbath day???

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Egghead]

Hi cliff
Ex 16:29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

You always like to say that the Sabbath command was given before Sinai and needs to be obeyed, Well, Part of that commandment for proper sabbath keeping involves staying in your house through out the Sabbath day,

Do you go out on the Sabbath day???

yours in Christ
deu 58

I didnt even get that far.
Wow......even the men i know who do observe the sabbath dont follow this one.

That is the thing I see, they tell us WE need to observe it as it is still in effect, and Id bet not a single one of them goes beyond the easy part of just not ''working'' on the sabbath.
Id bet not a single one of the sabbath keepers follows ALL the ordinances for observing the sabbath.

And yet they have the audacity to judge everyone else.

 

[deu58]

Hi Egghead

I didnt even get that far.
Wow......even the men i know who do observe the sabbath dont follow this one.

That is the thing I see, they tell us WE need to observe it as it is still in effect, and Id bet not a single one of them goes beyond the easy part of just not ''working'' on the sabbath.
Id bet not a single one of the sabbath keepers follows ALL the ordinances for observing the sabbath.

And yet they have the audacity to judge everyone else.

For the most part what you say is true,

Those who say we must keep the sabbath but yet do not keep it in the manner written in the OT have a real problem because there are no Sabbath keeping instructions in the NT to tell us that it should be kept any differently than what God Commanded in the OT,

I say for the most part because most Messianics to their credit do not demand that we must keep the Sabbath today as they do, They encourage it and try to show that it is taught as being kept in the NT,

Which is true, The Jewish Christians did keep the Sabbath along with the whole law, But as I know you are already familiar with Acts 15 it can also be plainly seen that obedience to the Mosaic law including Sabbath Keeping was never made binding on the Pagan Gentile Christians coming to Christ,

Again to the Messianics credit they do try to keep a proper sabbath and do not duck or avoid certain ordinances because they cause discomfort in their life,

The only group I know of that literally demands that all must keep the Sabbath or face Gods wrath for not doing so and do not even really keep it properly themselves are the SDA.

There may be other Sabbath keeping groups that are just as demanding as the SDA but I have never ran into them here,

But you will not find another Sabbath keeping group that are as demanding for the same reasons as the SDA

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[Normann]

Interesting concept, just can't find it in the Bible.

My friend Cliff,

I do not intend any dis-respect here as you have always be polite toward me. I say this because sometimes in a typed post it is not clear as to the attitude being sent out.

I am not someone that claims to have a special insight to the scriptures or secret revelation direct from God. Therefore if I can find the facts of the Sabbath as I stated, you can also. I am not better than anyone else, all it takes is to Study carefully, as outlined in 2 Tim. 2:15 and this applies to all scripture and topics; not just the Sabbath.

It's there in the N.T. and a careful study of the O.T. will show it also. Now my conclusion is this...

IF THE SABBATH IS SO IMPORTANT THAT AN ENTIRE ORGANIZATION IS NAMED "SEVENTH DAY ADVENTISTS" THEN IS IT NOT IMPORTANT TO REVIEW THE BOOKS FROM GEN. THROUGH DEUT. IN A SLOW COMPLETE AND OPEN-MINDED MANNER?

Try forgetting the teachings of anyone- start fresh and find the facts for yourself.

Your friend,
Normann

 

[Cliff2]

Hi cliff
Ex 16:29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.

You always like to say that the Sabbath command was given before Sinai and needs to be obeyed, Well, Part of that commandment for proper sabbath keeping involves staying in your house through out the Sabbath day,

Do you go out on the Sabbath day???

yours in Christ
deu 58

In Sabbath keeping as in every other aspect of Christianity it is a good idea to follow the example that Jesus gave to us.

Did He go out of His house on the Sabbath.

If you want to pick holes in what I do or believe then see how Jesus did it first.

 

[Cliff2]

Normann

I have went through and listed two pages of texts where the Sabbath is mentioned. I do not see the need to include anymore after looking through them. To be honest I do not find your concept there at all.


Exodus 16:23
And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
Exodus 16:22-24 (in Context) Exodus 16 (Whole Chapter)

1. Exodus 16:25
   And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
   Exodus 16:24-26 (in Context) Exodus 16 (Whole Chapter)
2. Exodus 16:26
   Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
   Exodus 16:25-27 (in Context) Exodus 16 (Whole Chapter)
3. Exodus 16:29
   See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
   Exodus 16:28-30 (in Context) Exodus 16 (Whole Chapter)
4. Exodus 20:8
   Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
   Exodus 20:7-9 (in Context) Exodus 20 (Whole Chapter)
5. Exodus 20:10
   But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
   Exodus 20:9-11 (in Context) Exodus 20 (Whole Chapter)
6. Exodus 20:11
   For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
   Exodus 20:10-12 (in Context) Exodus 20 (Whole Chapter)
7. Exodus 31:13
   Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
   Exodus 31:12-14 (in Context) Exodus 31 (Whole Chapter)
8. Exodus 31:14
   Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
   Exodus 31:13-15 (in Context) Exodus 31 (Whole Chapter)
9. Exodus 31:15
   Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
   Exodus 31:14-16 (in Context) Exodus 31 (Whole Chapter)
10. Leviticus 25:2
    Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye come into the land which I give you, then shall the land keep a sabbath unto the LORD.
    Leviticus 25:1-3 (in Context) Leviticus 25 (Whole Chapter)
11. Leviticus 25:4
    But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard.
    Leviticus 25:3-5 (in Context) Leviticus 25 (Whole Chapter)
12. Leviticus 25:6
    And the sabbath of the land shall be meat for you; for thee, and for thy servant, and for thy maid, and for thy hired servant, and for thy stranger that sojourneth with thee.
    Leviticus 25:5-7 (in Context) Leviticus 25 (Whole Chapter)
13. Leviticus 25:8
    And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years.
    Leviticus 25:7-9 (in Context) Leviticus 25 (Whole Chapter)
14. Leviticus 26:2
    Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the LORD.
    Leviticus 26:1-3 (in Context) Leviticus 26 (Whole Chapter)

 

[Cliff2]

1. Leviticus 26:34
   Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.
   Leviticus 26:33-35 (in Context) Leviticus 26 (Whole Chapter)
2. Leviticus 26:35
   As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it.
   Leviticus 26:34-36 (in Context) Leviticus 26 (Whole Chapter)
3. Leviticus 26:43
   The land also shall be left of them, and shall enjoy her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them: and they shall accept of the punishment of their iniquity: because, even because they despised my judgments, and because their soul abhorred my statutes.
   Leviticus 26:42-44 (in Context) Leviticus 26 (Whole Chapter)
4. Numbers 15:32
   And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
   Numbers 15:31-33 (in Context) Numbers 15 (Whole Chapter)
5. Numbers 28:9
   And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof:
   Numbers 28:8-10 (in Context) Numbers 28 (Whole Chapter)
6. Numbers 28:10
   This is the burnt offering of every sabbath, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.
   Numbers 28:9-11 (in Context) Numbers 28 (Whole Chapter)
7. Deuteronomy 5:12
   Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
   Deuteronomy 5:11-13 (in Context) Deuteronomy 5 (Whole Chapter)
8. Deuteronomy 5:14
   But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
   Deuteronomy 5:13-15 (in Context) Deuteronomy 5 (Whole Chapter)
9. Deuteronomy 5:15
   And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
   Deuteronomy 5:14-16 (in Context) Deuteronomy 5 (Whole Chapter)
10. 2 Kings 4:23
    And he said, Wherefore wilt thou go to him to day? it is neither new moon, nor sabbath. And she said, It shall be well.
    2 Kings 4:22-24 (in Context) 2 Kings 4 (Whole Chapter)
11. 2 Kings 11:5
    And he commanded them, saying, This is the thing that ye shall do; A third part of you that enter in on the sabbath shall even be keepers of the watch of the king's house;
    2 Kings 11:4-6 (in Context) 2 Kings 11 (Whole Chapter)
12. 2 Kings 11:7
    And two parts of all you that go forth on the sabbath, even they shall keep the watch of the house of the LORD about the king.
    2 Kings 11:6-8 (in Context) 2 Kings 11 (Whole Chapter)
13. 2 Kings 11:9
    And the captains over the hundreds did according to all things that Jehoiada the priest commanded: and they took every man his men that were to come in on the sabbath, with them that should go out on the sabbath, and came to Jehoiada the priest.
    2 Kings 11:8-10 (in Context) 2 Kings 11 (Whole Chapter)
14. 2 Kings 16:18
    And the covert for the sabbath that they had built in the house, and the king's entry without, turned he from the house of the LORD for the king of Assyria.
    2 Kings 16:17-19 (in Context) 2 Kings 16 (Whole Chapter)
15. 1 Chronicles 9:32
    And other of their brethren, of the sons of the Kohathites, were over the shewbread, to prepare it every sabbath.
    1 Chronicles 9:31-33 (in Context) 1 Chronicles 9 (Whole Chapter)
16. 1 Chronicles 23:31
    And to offer all burnt sacrifices unto the LORD in the sabbaths, in the new moons, and on the set feasts, by number, according to the order commanded unto them, continually before the LORD:
    1 Chronicles 23:30-32 (in Context) 1 Chronicles 23 (Whole Chapter)
17. 2 Chronicles 2:4
    Behold, I build an house to the name of the LORD my God, to dedicate it to him, and to burn before him sweet incense, and for the continual shewbread, and for the burnt offerings morning and evening, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts of the LORD our God. This is an ordinance for ever to Israel.
    2 Chronicles 2:3-5 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 2 (Whole Chapter)
18. 2 Chronicles 8:13
    Even after a certain rate every day, offering according to the commandment of Moses, on the sabbaths, and on the new moons, and on the solemn feasts, three times in the year, even in the feast of unleavened bread, and in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of tabernacles.
    2 Chronicles 8:12-14 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 8 (Whole Chapter)
19. 2 Chronicles 23:4
    This is the thing that ye shall do; A third part of you entering on the sabbath, of the priests and of the Levites, shall be porters of the doors;
    2 Chronicles 23:3-5 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 23 (Whole Chapter)
20. 2 Chronicles 23:8
    So the Levites and all Judah did according to all things that Jehoiada the priest had commanded, and took every man his men that were to come in on the sabbath, with them that were to go out on the sabbath: for Jehoiada the priest dismissed not the courses.
    2 Chronicles 23:7-9 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 23 (Whole Chapter)

 

[Cliff2]

Hi Egghead



For the most part what you say is true,

Those who say we must keep the sabbath but yet do not keep it in the manner written in the OT have a real problem because there are no Sabbath keeping instructions in the NT to tell us that it should be kept any differently than what God Commanded in the OT,

I say for the most part because most Messianics to their credit do not demand that we must keep the Sabbath today as they do, They encourage it and try to show that it is taught as being kept in the NT,

Which is true, The Jewish Christians did keep the Sabbath along with the whole law, But as I know you are already familiar with Acts 15 it can also be plainly seen that obedience to the Mosaic law including Sabbath Keeping was never made binding on the Pagan Gentile Christians coming to Christ,

Again to the Messianics credit they do try to keep a proper sabbath and do not duck or avoid certain ordinances because they cause discomfort in their life,

The only group I know of that literally demands that all must keep the Sabbath or face Gods wrath for not doing so and do not even really keep it properly themselves are the SDA.

There may be other Sabbath keeping groups that are just as demanding as the SDA but I have never ran into them here,

But you will not find another Sabbath keeping group that are as demanding for the same reasons as the SDA

yours in Christ
deu 58

Nothing to do with one group or another demanding anything. You continually say things about SDA's that are not right.

It is God who said to keep the Sabbath, the 7th day. Tyr and get that fact into your head. There was not a Seventh-day Adventist Church when God created Adam and Eve. It was God who said to keep the 7th day holy.

Does that make it wrong to follow what God has said to do?

Not in my books.

You or anyone else cannot go into the Bible and find as much support for Sunday or any other day of week as we can for the Sabbath.

I quoted two pages on the Sabbath and left behind another 6 or so. Where are all the Sunday keeping texts?

We all know where they are. There is none so can understand why they are not quoted.

 

[Egghead]

In Sabbath keeping as in every other aspect of Christianity it is a good idea to follow the example that Jesus gave to us.

Did He go out of His house on the Sabbath.

If you want to pick holes in what I do or believe then see how Jesus did it first.

Jesus also let His disciples WORK for food on the sabbath as well.
They were permitted to WORK for their needs.

 

[Egghead]

It is God who said to keep the Sabbath, the 7th day. Tyr and get that fact into your head. There was not a Seventh-day Adventist Church when God created Adam and Eve. It was God who said to keep the 7th day holy.

AGAIN

Why do you all not follow the WHOLE law?

I cant figure out why no one will answer this question