SDA please explain the failed prediction of Ellen White (SDA Prophet)

tall73 · Aug 10, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
She is referring to the testimonies of the Prophets in scripture. I am pretty sure you know this.

That doesn't even make sense in the context of the quote:
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It is Satan's plan to weaken the faith of God's people in the Testimonies. Next follows skepticism in regard to the vital points of our faith, the pillars of our position, then doubt as to the Holy Scriptures
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She speaks about those who have weakened faith in the testimonies then going on to doubt the Scriptures.

SabbathBlessings · Aug 10, 2023

tall73 said:
That doesn't even make sense in the context of the quote:
-----
It is Satan's plan to weaken the faith of God's people in the Testimonies. Next follows skepticism in regard to the vital points of our faith, the pillars of our position, then doubt as to the Holy Scriptures
-------

She speaks about those who have weakened faith in the testimonies then going on to doubt the Scriptures.

I’ll let @BobRyan answer, he is more versed in her writings. I do not take your one sentence to mean that if one does not believe in EGW they are not saved.

tall73 · Aug 10, 2023

Counsels for the Church page 92:

The word of God is sufficient to enlighten the most beclouded mind and may be understood by those who have any desire to understand it. But notwithstanding all this, some who profess to make the Word of God their study are found living in direct opposition to its plainest teachings. Then, to leave men and women without excuse, God gives plain and pointed testimonies, bringing them back to the word that they have neglected to follow. The word of God abounds in general principles for the formation of correct habits of living, and the testimonies, general and personal, have been calculated to call their attention more especially to these principles. I took the precious Bible and surrounded it with the several Testimonies for the Church, given for the people of God. Here, said I, the cases of nearly all are met. The sins they are to shun are pointed out. The counsel that they desire can be found here, given for other cases situated similarly to themselves. God has been pleased to give you line upon line and precept upon precept.

tall73 · Aug 10, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
I do not take your one sentence to mean that if one does not believe in EGW they are not saved.

We are not talking about my words, but those of Ellen White.

"If you lose confidence in the Testimonies you will drift away from Bible truth. I have been fearful that many would take a questioning, doubting position, and in my distress for your souls I would warn you. How many will heed the warning? Testimonies volume 5

tall73 · Aug 10, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
I’ll let @BobRyan answer, he is more versed in her writings.

It is not alone those who openly reject the Testimonies, or who cherish doubt concerning them, that are on dangerous ground. To disregard light is to reject it. {5T 680.2}

tall73 · Aug 10, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
I’ll let @BobRyan answer, he is more versed in her writings. I do not take your one sentence to mean that if one does not believe in EGW they are not saved.

Bob has read enough Ellen White to know what is being said in these quotes. They are speaking about those who are familiar with Ellen White's writings, but do not accept them.

If Bob believes that Ellen White is a prophet, do you think Bob will believe those rejecting a prophet will be guiltless?

According to Ellen White such are either accepting the "light" or rejecting it.

And it is those who know Ellen White's writings who say such things to people like AH, because they believe he is rejecting light from God.

Testimonies Volume 5

Let ministers and people remember that gospel truth hardens when it does not save. The rejection of light leaves men captives, bound about by chains of darkness and unbelief. "The soul that refuses to listen to the invitations of mercy from day to day can soon listen to the most urgent appeals without an emotion stirring his soul. As laborers with God we need more fervent piety and less self-exaltation. The more self is exalted, the more will faith in the Testimonies of the Spirit of God be lessened.

BobRyan · Aug 11, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
I’ll let @BobRyan answer, he is more versed in her writings. I do not take your one sentence to mean that if one does not believe in EGW they are not saved.

In fact Ellen White said not to make that a barrier to becoming an SDA and she never said a person is lost if they do not understand the Bible teaching on the gift of prophecy.

As we can all see here -- #129

As Tall73 and I both know very well.

BobRyan · Aug 11, 2023

tall73 said:
We are not talking about my words, but those of Ellen White.

"If you lose confidence in the Testimonies you will drift away from Bible truth. I have been fearful that many would take a questioning, doubting position, and in my distress for your souls I would warn you. How many will heed the warning? Testimonies volume 5

That is a quote in the context of one who knows truth on some Bible doctrine then later rejects it.

BobRyan · Aug 11, 2023

tall73 said:
If Bob believes that Ellen White is a prophet, do you think Bob will believe those rejecting a prophet will be guiltless?

Depends on whether that person ever had the understanding of what a true prophet is - and had come to the conviction that Ellen White was one.

Many people become convicted and fully accept some Bible teaching - only to later reject it. I suspect you and I both know this.

==========================

Question:

Would Tall73's readers fully expect to find these historic statements ??

1. Do not use the Testimonies as proof for unbelievers (Testimonies, vol. 1, pp. 119, 120; vol. 5, p. 669).
2. Do not use them as a test of fellowship (Testimonies, vol. 1, pp. 327-329).
3. Do not use the visions as a rule to measure all (Testimonies, vol. 1, pp. 382, 383).
4. Do not use the Testimonies as an iron rule or club (Testimonies, vol. 1, p. 369).

"There should be no trial or labor with those who have never seen the individual having visions, and who have no personal knowledge of the influence of the visions. Such should not be deprived of the benefits and privileges of the church, if their Christian course is otherwise correct, and they have formed a good Christian character." 1T328

2. Ellen G. White herself was explicit on this point:

a. Speaking in 1862 of those who did not fully understand the gift, she wrote:

(1) Such should not be deprived of the benefits and privileges of the church, if their Christian course is otherwise correct, and they have formed a good Christian character.-1T 328:0 (for a fuller statement, see especially pp. 328, 329, and-in 1863-"Wrong Use of the Visions," pp. 382-84).

BobRyan · Aug 11, 2023

tall73 said:
Adventist Heretic keeps the Sabbath and has not rejected God. So you are fine with him then, even though he doesn't accept Ellen White?

Are we supposed to engage in judging other people in your POV? That seems a bit odd. I don't come to CF to judge others.

BobRyan · Aug 11, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
There is no scripture that says we can be in rebellion to God and be saved. Hebrews 10:26-30 makes this case pretty clear along with the very words of Jesus Matthew 7:21-23 and one of the last scriptures of the Bible Rev 22:14-15 we have free will to test any theory we want through

tall73 said:
tall73 said:

So noted that you think those who reject Ellen White are in rebellion against God.

Click to expand...

SabbathBlessings said:
SabbathBlessings said:

You’re funny that way, I was not quoting EGW, I was quoting scripture but I see what you did, nice little twist of context. No one teaches if you reject EGW one will not be saved, but rejecting God and being in rebellion to Him and His commandments, if we trust His Words we should believe the consequences.

Click to expand...

Good point -- some people call that bait-and-switch

tall73 · Aug 11, 2023

BobRyan said:
Depends on whether that person ever had the understanding of what a true prophet is - and had come to the conviction that Ellen White was one.

Many people become convicted and fully accept some Bible teaching - only to later reject it. I suspect you and I both know this.

==========================

Question:

Would Tall73

2. Ellen G. White herself was explicit on this point:

a. Speaking in 1862 of those who did not fully understand the gift, she wrote:

(1) Such should not be deprived of the benefits and privileges of the church, if their Christian course is otherwise correct, and they have formed a good Christian character.-1T 328:0 (for a fuller statement, see especially pp. 328, 329, and-in 1863-"Wrong Use of the Visions," pp. 382-84).

Already quoted with a discussion by the White Estate

tall73 · Aug 11, 2023

BobRyan said:
Are we supposed to engage in judging other people in your POV? That seems a bit odd. I don't come to CF to judge others.

The conversation called into question his experience of hostility over not accepting egw in his home church, prior to my posting in the thread.

I was noting why, but was glad to hear it would not be an issue for the other poster. I therefore expect to hear zero complaints about AH not accepting egw but still being an Adventist.

tall73 · Aug 11, 2023

BobRyan said:
Good point -- some people call that bait-and-switch

Except she did quote egw in my post and respond to her wording.

I am satisfied that those following along will now have a better idea of why AH may have received less than supportive comments when he rejected Ellen White.

tall73 · Aug 11, 2023

BobRyan said:
BobRyan said:

In fact Ellen White said not to make that a barrier to becoming an SDA and she never said a person is lost if they do not understand the Bible teaching on the gift of prophecy.

As Tall73 and I both know very well.

Click to expand...

And they can read her quotes regarding those who are acquainted with her writings and reject them.

Leaf473 · Aug 11, 2023

BobRyan said:
2. Do not use them as a test of fellowship (Testimonies, vol. 1, pp. 327-329).

Can you reject any part(s) of the 28 fundamental beliefs and still be considered fully SDA? Would all roles and offices in the church still be open to you?

BobRyan · Aug 11, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
There is no scripture that says we can be in rebellion to God and be saved. Hebrews 10:26-30 makes this case pretty clear along with the very words of Jesus Matthew 7:21-23 and one of the last scriptures of the Bible Rev 22:14-15 we have free will to test any theory we want through

tall73 said:
tall73 said:

So noted that you think those who reject Ellen White are in rebellion against God.

Click to expand...

SabbathBlessings said:
SabbathBlessings said:

You’re funny that way, I was not quoting EGW, I was quoting scripture but I see what you did, nice little twist of context. No one teaches if you reject EGW one will not be saved, but rejecting God and being in rebellion to Him and His commandments, if we trust His Words we should believe the consequences.

Click to expand...

Good point -- some people call that bait-and-switch

tall73 said:
Except she did quote egw in my post and respond to her wording.

I have provided the post-response trail in this thread ... let the reader decide what they see ...

BobRyan · Aug 11, 2023

Leaf473 said:
Can you reject any part(s) of the 28 fundamental beliefs and still be considered fully SDA? Would all roles and offices in the church still be open to you?

non-SDAs are first given a set of Bible studies and asked if they agree with the doctrines of the church. We don't just baptize them on day 1.

If someone starts to question their beliefs after joining we don't go back and "audit them". At some point when they have changed their mind enough so that some other denomination fits their new set of beliefs better than this one - they leave.

======================

But that is VERY DIFFERENT from paying them to teach false doctrine. We are all about NOT doing that.

BobRyan · Aug 11, 2023

tall73 said:
The conversation called into question his experience of hostility over not accepting egw in his home church

Everyone is free to reject whatever they wish and join any group that better fits their views. I have no way to audit what someone claims is their history. I leave it to them . But I myself have been a member of a number of SDA congregations over the years and I have seen all sorts of folks in the church.

BobRyan · Aug 11, 2023

SabbathBlessings said:
I’ll let @BobRyan answer, he is more versed in her writings. I do not take your one sentence to mean that if one does not believe in EGW they are not saved.

In fact Ellen White said not to make that a barrier to becoming an SDA and she never said a person is lost if they do not understand the Bible teaching on the gift of prophecy.

As we can all see here -- #129

As Tall73 and I both know very well.

tall73 said:
And they can read her quotes

If they take the time to actually read post 129 they may be informed in areas that you might find surprising.

SDA please explain the failed prediction of Ellen White (SDA Prophet)

1. Do you think that the response to the original post has debunked the or objections to EGW

YES

NO

OTHER

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