SDA please explain the failed prediction of Ellen White (SDA Prophet)

SabbathBlessings said:

More ex-Adventists not moving on from Adventism I am starting to believe this is a thing. I would think one would want to focus on “greener pastures” but it seems the focus is on anti-Adventists instead of focusing on ”spreading the good news”.

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Anyone who watches will see he discussed the gospel quite a bit.

tall73 said:

Anyone who watches will see he discussed the gospel quite a bit.

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Quoting scripture out of context does not mean it’s coming from God, the very first lie in the Garden proves this point. Spending countless hours focused on negativity is not someone I would want to follow, nor how God calls us to spend our time, but we have free will.

SabbathBlessings said:

More ex-Adventists not moving on from Adventism

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It's a common situation in tightly-knit groups imo. Say a person is raised SDA, and is really into it. But then as an adult starts to notice problems. Having lived so long with the idea that this group is the only group, it's not so easy to just leave.

Compare that with being raised, say, Presbyterian. If you feel God calling you somewhere else, you could go be something like Baptist. Not that much difference nowadays.

SabbathBlessings said:

I am starting to believe this is a thing. I would think one would want to focus on “greener pastures” but it seems the focus is on anti-Adventists instead of focusing on ”spreading the good news”. This seems to be the strongest testimony for Adventists so thanks.

The Adventist church has a set of beliefs found here What do Seventh-day Adventists Believe?

You take any church, you will have varying beliefs to some degree, which is not unique to the SDA church.

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Leaf473 said:

It's a common situation in tightly-knit groups imo. Say a person is raised SDA, and is really into it. But then as an adult starts to notice problems. Having lived so long with the idea that this group is the only group, it's not so easy to just leave.

Compare that with being raised, say, Presbyterian. If you feel God calling you somewhere else, you could go be something like Baptist. Not that much difference nowadays.

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There will be people coming in and going out of God's light until probation closes when everyone has made their final decisions and Jesus Comes for His people. There is only one Truth to God's Word, not many. I can see why some churches put aside their doctrinal differences, but God wants us grounded in Truth. Many Adventists grow up and stay Adventist, some that go come back and some don't, happens in most churches. Many new Adventists from all different denominations coming into the Church accepting God's biblical Sabbath- I talk to them regularly, Most Adventists who leave also stop keeping the Sabbath commandment or want to edit it the way many others do. This to me says a lot and explains why they keeping hanging around always trying to disprove the Adventist church which they think would somehow disprove the commandment God asked us to Remember and keep holy. The Adventist church did not invent the Sabbath- God did for man at Creation Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:11, we choose to believe His Word and try to teach others as Jesus commissions us to teach others to keep the commandments Mat 5:19. The Sabbath is a commandment of God.

Anyway, I know how feel about the SDA church and God's Sabbath, that's fine we don't have to agree. Take care.

SabbathBlessings said:

There will be people coming in and going out of God's light until His Second Coming, There is only one Truth to God's Word, not many.

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Well, and that's the key When you believe you have discovered the truth, you want to share that with other people... Especially with those that you have fellowship and worshiped with for years.

SabbathBlessings said:

I can see why some churches put aside their doctrinal differences, but God wants us grounded in Truth. Many Adventists growing up stay Adventist, some that go come back and some don't, happens in most churches. Many new Adventists from all different denominations coming into the Church accepting God's biblical Sabbath- I talk to them regularly, Most Adventists who leave also stop keeping the Sabbath commandment or want to edit it the way many others do. This to me says a lot and explains why they keeping hanging around always trying to disprove the Adventist church which would somehow disprove the commandment God asked us to Remember and keep holy .

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SabbathBlessings said:

Anyway, I know how feel about the SDA church and God's Sabbath, that's fine we don't have to agree. Take care.

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I'm interested in what your impression of my impression of the SDA Church is. Please expound

SabbathBlessings said:

Spending countless hours focused on negativity is not someone I would want to follow, nor how God calls us to spend our time, but we have free will.

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But you do. Adventist books and sermons criticize the Catholic church and protestant churches.

SabbathBlessings said:

Quoting scripture out of context does not mean it’s coming from God, the very first lie in the Garden proves this point. Spending countless hours focused on negativity is not someone I would want to follow, nor how God calls us to spend our time, but we have free will.

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You said you dont want to spend time on it, but then said quotes were out of context....how would you know?

Leaf473 said:

It's a common situation in tightly-knit groups imo. Say a person is raised SDA, and is really into it. But then as an adult starts to notice problems. Having lived so long with the idea that this group is the only group, it's not so easy to just leave.

Compare that with being raised, say, Presbyterian. If you feel God calling you somewhere else, you could go be something like Baptist. Not that much difference nowadays.

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The guy did leave. In fact he was a Baptist and now is Presbyterian.

But he criticizes Adventists. Obviously Adventists would prefer critics who don't know much about them.

SabbathBlessings said:

There is only one Truth to God's Word, not many. I can see why some churches put aside their doctrinal differences, but God wants us grounded in Truth.

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Then why object to those who question whether the SDA have the truth?

tall73 said:

Then why object to those who question whether the SDA have the truth?

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Most didn’t believe Jesus in His time or the apostles either, not that I am comparing but goes to show how so many people can be dead wrong. The people in the days of Jesus and His apotles thought they were false prophets, sinners, didn’t understand God’s Word, throught they were contradicting His Word, sadly many people still don’t believe the Words of Jesus. So however many threads are created and things get taken out of context, all of this will get sorted out soon enough.

I will never be able to believe any group who claims we can forgot the one commandment God said Remember and is holy and blessed by God, so whatever judgement comes from man regarding this, I’m fine with.

William Miller, in addition to ignoring the warnings of Jesus about no man knowing the day or the hour, or that the Son of Man will come at a time you think not, also indicated that the earth is the sanctuary to be cleansed by fire.

Ellen White, while noting that the MIllerites were wrong on this point, says the rest of the Christian world also held this wrong view!

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Great Controversy, chapter 23

"In common with the rest of the Christian world, Adventists then held that the earth, or some portion of it, was the sanctuary."

And a bit later on:

"In their investigation they learned that there is no Scripture evidence sustaining the popular view that the earth is the sanctuary; but they found in the Bible a full explanation of the subject of the sanctuary, its nature, location, and services; the testimony of the sacred writers being so clear and ample as to place the matter beyond all question. The apostle Paul, in the Epistle to the Hebrews, says..."

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To claim that the rest of the Christian world was ignorant of the book of Hebrews, and its reference to the heavenly sanctuary is untrue.

For centuries Christians had known and spoken of it.

Chrysostom:


“For Christ is not entered into the Holy Places made with hands” (he says) “which are the figures3102 of the True.” (These then are true; and those are figures,3103 for the temple too has been so arranged,3104 as the Heaven of Heavens.)

Cyril of Jerusalem:


For the mystery has been fulfilled; the things that are written have been accomplished; sins are forgiven. For Christ being come an High-Priest of the good things to come, by the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation, nor yet by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood, entered in once for all into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption; for if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer, sprinkling the defiled, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh, how much more the blood of Christ1625? And again, Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which He hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh1


Augustine:


What doth He, who is at the right hand of God, and intercedeth for us,4974 like a priest entering into the inner places, and into the holy of holies, into the mysteries of heaven, He alone being without sin, and therefore easily purifying from sins

And not just centuries ago was this known, but it was still known in the time leading up to 1844:

Matthew Henry:


Christ, our high priest, has entered into heaven, not as their high priest entered into the holiest, with the blood of bulls and of goats, but by his own blood, typified by theirs, and infinitely more precious. And this,

Not for one year only, which showed the imperfection of that priesthood, that it did but typically obtain a year's reprieve or pardon. But our high priest entered into heaven once for all, and has obtained not a yearly respite, but eternal redemption, and so needs not to make an annual entrance.

Robert Haldane:


He is set at the right hand of the majesty in the heavens. Hebrews 8:1. This is the sanctuary of which He is minister. This is the true tabernacle into which He has entered by His own blood.

Albert Barnes:


By a greater and more perfect tabernacle - The meaning is, that Christ officiated as high priest in a much more magnificent and perfect temple than either the tabernacle or the temple under the old dispensation. He performed the great functions of his priestly office - the sprinkling of the blood of the atonement - in heaven itself, of which the most holy place in the tabernacle was but the emblem.

tall73 said:
Then why object to those who question whether the SDA have the truth?

SabbathBlessings said:

Most didn’t believe Jesus in His time or the apostles either, not that I am comparing but goes to show how so many people can be dead wrong.

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So you object to people who question whether SDA have the truth because people in the past were wrong?

If people in the past were wrong, shouldn't that mean you should examine your own beliefs? We are in a theology forum,and discussing theology should not be surprising.

The law tells us to remember many things. To me, focusing on a particular occurrence of the word is an unbalanced approach.

SabbathBlessings said:

Most didn’t believe Jesus in His time or the apostles either, not that I am comparing but goes to show how so many people can be dead wrong.

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SabbathBlessings said:

The people in the days of Jesus and His apotles thought they were false prophets, sinners, didn’t understand God’s Word, throught they were contradicting His Word, sadly many people still don’t believe the Words of Jesus.

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It doesn't logically follow that when a lot of people think someone is wrong, that person must then be from God.

SabbathBlessings said:

So however many threads are created and things get taken out of context, all of this will get sorted out soon enough.

I will never be able to believe any group who claims we can forgot the one commandment God said Remember and is holy and blessed by God, so whatever judgement comes from man regarding this, I’m fine with.

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Leaf473 said:

The law tells us to remember many things. To me, focusing on a particular occurrence of the word is an unbalanced approach.

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 13:3 - New American Standard Bible

And Moses said to the people, “Remember this day in which you departed from Egypt, from the house of slavery; for by a powerful hand the LORD brought you out from this place. And nothing with yeast shall be eaten.

www.biblegateway.com

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The curious thing to me (among a multitude of such things) is the intensity of focus by the SDA on Saturday and their complete indifference to the other days God set apart for His people, Israel, such as Passover, the Feast of Trumpets, etc.

Leaf473 said:

It doesn't logically follow that when a lot of people think someone is wrong, that person must then be from God.

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Never said that. What I said, is that most people got it wrong in the days of Jesus so much, so they crucified Him and killed most of His apostles because they didn't believe Him or His people. The pattern continues- Jesus in His own words says it is going to happen again at His Second coming Math 7:21-23 Rev 22:14-15, where believers who think they are doing God's will, but really doing their own, will not be in God's Kingdom. The point is just because the majority thinks someone is wrong, doesn't mean their right. EGW has a vast number of writings, just like it is easy to take scripture out of context, it is with her writings as well.

bbbbbbb said:

The curious thing to me (among a multitude of such things) is the intensity of focus by the SDA on Saturday and their complete indifference to the other days God set apart for His people, Israel, such as Passover, the Feast of Trumpets, etc.

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I don't think there's any reasonable way to divide up the law into yesterday and today categories. I wonder if Ellen White talked about how to divide up the law, and if she provided a system that works with the entire law.

There's also the 7-year Sabbath

SabbathBlessings said:

Never said that. What I said, is that most people got it wrong in the days of Jesus so much, so they crucified Him and killed most of His apostles because they didn't believe Him. The pattern continues- Jesus in His own words says it is going to happen again at His Second coming Math 7:21-23 Rev 22:14-15, where believers who think they are doing God's will, but really doing their own, will not be in God's Kingdom.

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SabbathBlessings said:

The point it just because the majority thinks someone is wrong, doesn't mean their right.

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That's correct! But it doesn't mean they're wrong, either

SabbathBlessings said:

EGW has a vast number of writings, just like it is easy to take scripture out of context, it is with her writings as well.

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Do you believe she was a messenger from God?

Leaf473 said:

That's correct! But it doesn't mean they're wrong, either

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Doesn't mean they're right either. In scripture, there is never a time when the majority got it right. Jesus speaks about this many times in scripture- the majority takes the wide road, only a few takes the narrow path. In fact, we are told at His Second Coming will be like the days of Noah, where the majority did not get it right. He tells us not to scare us, but to give us as much warning as possible because He loves us and hopes we choose a different path.

Leaf473 said:

Do you believe she was a messenger from God?

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A true messenger puts the light back on God's Word which is what she does.

Take care.

Leaf473 said:

I don't think there's any reasonable way to divide up the law into yesterday and today categories. I wonder if Ellen White talked about how to divide up the law, and if she provided a system that works with the entire law.

There's also the 7-year Sabbath

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 25:4 - New American Standard Bible

but during the seventh year the land shall have a Sabbath rest, a Sabbath to the LORD; you shall not sow your field nor prune your vineyard.

www.biblegateway.com

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In my feeble efforts over the years to ascertain the theological rationale regarding the Law in the SDA the only thing I can come up with is that they, on one hand, display intense devotion in obeying all of God's commandments, but on the other hand, define those commands as actually being only the Ten Commandments of which the fourth Commandment is, by far and away, preeminent. That poses some curious contradictions, from my perspective. In actual practice, the SDA has redefined the dietary commandments of the Old Testament to conform to their conception of a vegetarian diet, although there is not the slightest hint of such a thing in the Ten Commandments.