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SDA INPUTS: Catholic Church and molestation issue

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SassySDA

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Cliff2 said:
USA today and other news agencies are reporting the Vatican is set to approve the ordaining of homosexuals. This in the light of the fact of the years of homosexual molestations of children in the church by homosexual priests.


click USA Today for a full report.

Coming from someone with a corrections background, (it was my career), I have more hours training in the area of sex offenders than I would care to even count. I would like to clarify one thing. Being a child molestor does NOT go hand in hand with homosexuality. One has nothing to do with the other on any type of consistent basis.

If a priest molests a child, whether it be a boy or a girl, it is NOT necessarily because he is homosexual, latent or otherwise.

This has been something that mainstream america has always believed, but it simply isn't true, it's a myth.

I'm not going to say that one can't be both a homosexual and a pedophile, I'm simply stating that because one states that they are homosexual doesn't mean they are a pedophile as well.

I'm not in any way attempting to state that homosexuality is normal, not at all. Neither is NORMAL. Both have "problems", the homosexual has a set of mental issues, and the child molestor has another whole set of his own.

They are two separate people, with separate types of problems. I wanted to bring this out because pedophilia is becoming more and more of a concern in our country. Parents need to be vigilant and watch over their children at all times, with ANY stranger. It has always bothered me that this misunderstanding has been out there, because while those who believe that pedophiles are homosexuals are watching out for the "gay man" across the street, their perfectly normal looking, acting, kind and generous to a fault, just LOVES kids would do anything for them neighbor next door...has designs on their child.

The fact is that the largest percentage of people incarcerated for sex crimes against children are HETEROSEXUAL MALES.

The really scary thing about pedophiles is that they are undetectable until they are caught...for the most part. The violent ones are a little easier to pick out of the crowd, the Joseph Duncan's of this world, if you will. But most of them look like anyone else...unfortunately they ARE the boogeyman, without the costume.

Thanks for the opportunity to put that out there Cliff.
 
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Cliff2

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SassySDA said:
Coming from someone with a corrections background, (it was my career), I have more hours training in the area of sex offenders than I would care to even count. I would like to clarify one thing. Being a child molestor does NOT go hand in hand with homosexuality. One has nothing to do with the other on any type of consistent basis.

If a priest molests a child, whether it be a boy or a girl, it is NOT necessarily because he is homosexual, latent or otherwise.

This has been something that mainstream america has always believed, but it simply isn't true, it's a myth.

I'm not going to say that one can't be both a homosexual and a pedophile, I'm simply stating that because one states that they are homosexual doesn't mean they are a pedophile as well.

I'm not in any way attempting to state that homosexuality is normal, not at all. Neither is NORMAL. Both have "problems", the homosexual has a set of mental issues, and the child molestor has another whole set of his own.

They are two separate people, with separate types of problems. I wanted to bring this out because pedophilia is becoming more and more of a concern in our country. Parents need to be vigilant and watch over their children at all times, with ANY stranger. It has always bothered me that this misunderstanding has been out there, because while those who believe that pedophiles are homosexuals are watching out for the "gay man" across the street, their perfectly normal looking, acting, kind and generous to a fault, just LOVES kids would do anything for them neighbor next door...has designs on their child.

The fact is that the largest percentage of people incarcerated for sex crimes against children are HETEROSEXUAL MALES.

The really scary thing about pedophiles is that they are undetectable until they are caught...for the most part. The violent ones are a little easier to pick out of the crowd, the Joseph Duncan's of this world, if you will. But most of them look like anyone else...unfortunately they ARE the boogeyman, without the costume.

Thanks for the opportunity to put that out there Cliff.

You would know more than what I do considering your background, thanks for bringing this to my attention.
 
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HoneyDew

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So the title of the thread misled me. I thought it was an article where the official SDA's viewpoint was addressed. And I thought, "what was the need for that? We have our own business to take care of." LOL
Anyway, I do agree with what Sassy said, except for one sentence regarding the normalcy of homosexuality. The majority of those engaged in pederasty are indeed heterosexual.
 
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SassySDA

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HoneyDew said:
So the title of the thread misled me. I thought it was an article where the official SDA's viewpoint was addressed. And I thought, "what was the need for that? We have our own business to take care of." LOL
Anyway, I do agree with what Sassy said, except for one sentence regarding the normalcy of homosexuality. The majority of those engaged in pederasty are indeed heterosexual.

Clarification...do you think I stated that homosexuality was normal? If that's the message you got, I didn't say what I meant to say right.

It's not normal. It just doesn't mean they are also pedophiles.
 
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HoneyDew

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SassySDA said:
Clarification...do you think I stated that homosexuality was normal? If that's the message you got, I didn't say what I meant to say right.

It's not normal. It just doesn't mean they are also pedophiles.

No, no, your point came across plain. I should have finished my thought. Mea culpa.
I just have been thinking that while homosexuality seems to be a choice by some, for others it appears that it might not be -- that is, they knew from as early as they could remember that there was something different about them, but that something is as normal to them as being human. To me, if there are so many mutations where a person can be born with both external genitalia and chromosomal errors such as XXY, etc, then sexual behavior could possibly have an explanation there.
There is so much that research is unearthing that I am reserving judgement until they come out with the gene or whatever other reasons that might explain homosexuality.
 
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SassySDA

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HoneyDew said:
No, no, your point came across plain. I should have finished my thought. Mea culpa.
I just have been thinking that while homosexuality seems to be a choice by some, for others it appears that it might not be -- that is, they knew from as early as they could remember that there was something different about them, but that something is as normal to them as being human. To me, if there are so many mutations where a person can be born with both external genitalia and chromosomal errors such as XXY, etc, then sexual behavior could possibly have an explanation there.
There is so much that research is unearthing that I am reserving judgement until they come out with the gene or whatever other reasons that might explain homosexuality.

Note...I said pedophiles have a set of mental issues and homosexuals have their own.

While most christians I have spoken to on this subject appear to believe that homosexuality is a "life style choice" and nothing more, I believe there is way more to it than that. As I said I have spent numerous hours, days, weeks, even months in training on this subject area due to my sex offender training.

I completely agree that to God homosexuality...the sex act between two people of the same sex is an ABOMINATION. However, I would like to leave this out here as something to think about....Sin is an abomination to Him, and a "sin is a sin" in His eyes, "if ye break one (commandments) ye break them all", said Jesus.

Taking it even further...When one gets the opportunity to work in a corrections setting, if nothing else, you get to see just about everything. Every mental ailment known to mankind and some that they haven't found a name for yet. John Q. Public, for the most part, has the mindset that people break the law just because they want to. They find it exciting, or fun, what have you. And yes, I have heard those exact comments. I'm here to tell you that every single human being that we have locked up in jail, or state penitentiaries are sick. They are mentally/emotionally ill. They would be better served in a mental hospital than a prison. Prisons cannot provide the kind of care that they need, so they warehouse them and they let them loose on society WORSE OFF then before they went in. From thief to murderer..all suffer from some kind of mental defect, personality disorder, or emotional illness. The reasons are facilities are always beyond capacity and the rate of recidivism remains so high is that America's idea of GIVE 'EM MORE TIME THAT WILL TEACH THEM, and warehousing them and doing nothing with any attempt at rehabilitation is not working, but the powers that be turn a blind eye to all of that. Prisons are big business. In most states, it's the major employer. Each inmate is a dollar figure.

From THIEF to MURDERER. My point? (Get to it already will ya lady?) While stealing is a sin, an abomination in God's eyes, the reason behind the person becoming a thief, the illness, isn't. If homosexuality is finally determined, beyond a shadow of a doubt, to be caused by some form of illness...whether it be mental OR physical in that they may have too many female hormones or male hormones whichever the case may be, would we, as christians look at it any differently?

I remember a gentlemen on my tier who was homosexual. He was one of the most effeminate men I have ever met in my life. I could see that someone had dropped the ball when they housed him on my tier, he needed to be in protective custody, he'd never survive on my block. Dropped the ball accidentally? More than likely on purpose. Anyway, I got him moved, and in the meantime I had a chance to talk with him, as he was pretty much by my side until the paperwork went through and the actual transfer could take place. The man was pitiful. He was miserable. He didn't want to be who he was. He hated himself more than anyone else did. Long story short, this man DID NOT choose his lifestyle. No one CHOOSES to be miserable. No one, in their right state of mind and emotionally healthy, CHOOSES a lifestyle that is going to bring them nothing but horror and pain.

While I do not condone homosexual behavior, I do have some understanding and even some sympathy for the pain they endure, whether they admit to that pain or not.

God does not make mistakes. Could this sexual ailment, along with pedophilia be something that Satan brought into the picture?

One last thing...one of the main reasons that pedophilia continues to increase in the area of offenses is because of what I call the "ewwwww" factor. No one wants to be near them, let alone deal with them. Psychiatrists, for a long time, declared them sick, but incurable. How do we know that if they haven't tried to find one? Do you know that if a man starts to have feelings towards children that he KNOWS is improper, and he wants to get therapy, talk to someone about it, get some help...that he has no where to turn for that help? If he divulges this information to any mental health care professional, they are bound by law to report it, and that man's life will be over as he knew it, and he's actually done nothing wrong - yet.

I have to wonder how many children might have been saved the horror, the terror of this act, if their attacker had had somewhere to turn for help.

The fact that they cannot safely cry out for help, certainly can't be a good thing.
 
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SassySDA

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HoneyDew said:
Now how long did it take you to write the above? :)


Thanks for the response. I can see that you feel very strongly about this issue. How long were you working in that field? You must have seen tremendous pain on a daily basis? How was it to go home after a day in that environment?

Not long, really, I type at about 95 wpm.

I went home more tired than you can possibly imagine. Mental tired is more exhausting than physical...I've done both types of work, and trust me when I tell you it's more exhausting. My mind never shutdown. All day long at work I had to be on my toes, so that I stayed safe and those around me did as well.

I was also mentor and therapist to the inmates. In my state, CO's are encouraged to work with the offenders, not stay apart from them like you see on some of the specials A&E shows.

I loved my job, and I'm heartbroken that I am not well enough to continue doing it. I cared about how the guys did on my tier. I didn't see them as a number, I saw them as a human being, one of God's creations. That doesn't mean I was a softy like a lot of people think. As a parent, I love my children deeply, but I was a very firm disciplinarian...just ask them, LOL. The facility had very strict rules, and the guys abided by them, I saw to that. But I also took to the time to lend an ear when I could, and teach as often as God gave me the opportunity. Showing them the right way to live in society, getting them to see how the "right way" to have handled a problem would have achieved them much different and much better results.

It's very unfortunate that not every child has a good set of parents, or even a good caregiver/guardian. They grow up on the streets with no sense of direction or purpose. It was alway so sad to me to think of the wasted flesh in the facility, what might have been had someone at the right place and the right time, reached out a hand to them when they were boys.

BIG BROTHERS OF AMERICA
BIG SISTERS OF AMERICA

This organization is one of the best we have in this country. If you have any spare time at all, and by you, I mean anyone reading this post, please consider getting involved. Children don't care who it is that is showing interest in them and caring, just so someone does. They so desperately want and need adults in their lives who will listen to them and nurture them. Show them the right way.

Yes, I went home utterly exhausted each night, but it was the most wonderful tired I have ever felt...

It's rare when you get to give something back to your community, by helping to keep it safe...and get paid for the pleasure.
 
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Seraph1m

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There are pedophiles in ever denomination.
There are homosexuals in every denomination.

When we start facing the reality that sin is sin, that each of us has one issue of some sort or another to deal with and, that each of us must stand before God for our own issues, then maybe we can learn to accept that they are also loved by God. Maybe then we can accept that He died to save them just like He died for us. After which, we may learn to truly love the sinner and, bearing one anothers burdens be merciful and gracious to all.

If we truly believe that God is able to give us a clean heart and renew a right spirit within us and that we can be transformed by the renewing of the mind, then who are we to say if, for example, a former drunk should be allowed to become clergy or a former wife/husband abuser become clergy, Should liars or a former thief can become clergy? These are some things to consider. As believers we must allow the Holy Spirit to lead and be daily reminded, but for the grace of God go I.
 
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wiggsfly

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SassySDA said:
Coming from someone with a corrections background, (it was my career), I have more hours training in the area of sex offenders than I would care to even count. I would like to clarify one thing. Being a child molestor does NOT go hand in hand with homosexuality. One has nothing to do with the other on any type of consistent basis.

If a priest molests a child, whether it be a boy or a girl, it is NOT necessarily because he is homosexual, latent or otherwise.

This has been something that mainstream america has always believed, but it simply isn't true, it's a myth.

I'm not going to say that one can't be both a homosexual and a pedophile, I'm simply stating that because one states that they are homosexual doesn't mean they are a pedophile as well.

I'm not in any way attempting to state that homosexuality is normal, not at all. Neither is NORMAL. Both have "problems", the homosexual has a set of mental issues, and the child molestor has another whole set of his own.

They are two separate people, with separate types of problems. I wanted to bring this out because pedophilia is becoming more and more of a concern in our country. Parents need to be vigilant and watch over their children at all times, with ANY stranger. It has always bothered me that this misunderstanding has been out there, because while those who believe that pedophiles are homosexuals are watching out for the "gay man" across the street, their perfectly normal looking, acting, kind and generous to a fault, just LOVES kids would do anything for them neighbor next door...has designs on their child.

The fact is that the largest percentage of people incarcerated for sex crimes against children are HETEROSEXUAL MALES.

The really scary thing about pedophiles is that they are undetectable until they are caught...for the most part. The violent ones are a little easier to pick out of the crowd, the Joseph Duncan's of this world, if you will. But most of them look like anyone else...unfortunately they ARE the boogeyman, without the costume.

Thanks for the opportunity to put that out there Cliff.

I'm glad to see this as homosexuality is about as confused a topic as the eucharist or Mary.
 
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Seraph1m

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What I find disturbing is that we find sin of every stripe and hue in "every" denomination. It is something we each must acknowledge, because ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. No matter where we are or where we attend this behavior can be found going on somewhere with the leadership as well as the lay person.

Peace
 
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plmarquette

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2-3% of the clergy ... are
gamblers
drinkers
womanizers
etc......

protestant , catholic, jewish , moslem ....

the media suggests repeatedly (so we will buy into their mental gymnastics) that 3% are normal and 97% are flawed ...

.... the accuser of the brethren .... abc, nbc, cnn....
 
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