SDA a cult??

[KellyLeigh]

I was completely floored when I heard this. Someone told me that Seventh day Adventist are a cult and apparently we are all going to hell because we are not truly Christians. Why would someone think we are not Christians? Have anyone else heard this before?

 

[Sophia7]

I was completely floored when I heard this. Someone told me that Seventh day Adventist are a cult and apparently we are all going to hell because we are not truly Christians. Why would someone think we are not Christians? Have anyone else heard this before?

Yes, if you hung around GT for a while, you would probably hear such things. Fortunately, I haven't heard too many people tell me that I'm going to hell, though (although they do think we are heretics because of our view of hell). Here are a few reasons that people give for thinking that we belong to a cult:

1. They say that we are legalists, trying to earn salvation by keeping the Sabbath and denying our need for God's grace.
2. They say that the doctrine of the investigative judgment teaches that Christ's sacrifice of Himself on the cross was not sufficient to save us. They also say that Adventists who view the scapegoat in the Day of Atonement service as a type of Satan are really saying that Satan atones for our sins. This is a big concern of those who write books on cults.
3. They say that those who believe that Michael the Archangel is another name for Jesus are denying the divinity of Christ by lowering Him to the status of a created angel. (Note to any guests who may be unfamiliar with Adventist beliefs: Adventists do not believe that Jesus is a created being nor an angel but rather the commander of the angels. We fully accept the divinity of Christ.)
4. They say that we give Ellen White more authority than the Bible.
5. Some accuse us of taking people's money when they join the church and meting out only a small allowance to them. I don't know where they got that idea, and it's not a common accusation, but I have heard it.
6. In another area of CF, I noticed someone accusing us of offering "living sacrifices." I'm not sure what they meant by that, but it seems to be another misconception that has popped up recently.

People say many other things about us, but the first four are the claims that I have heard most often. There are some people who feel that we should not even be able to post in the Christians-Only sections of CF because of some of our beliefs, but we do agree with the beliefs that are stated in the Nicene Creed.

 

[Cliff2]

I was completely floored when I heard this. Someone told me that Seventh day Adventist are a cult and apparently we are all going to hell because we are not truly Christians. Why would someone think we are not Christians? Have anyone else heard this before?

If I have heard it once, then I have heard it a 100 times or more.

There are many reason as to why the charge is laid against the SDA Church.

We did not come along as a Church until about 160 years ago.

As far as Churches go that is not very long.

We came out of many different Churches and different beliefs.

Some of them were held onto by some for many years.

Some of the early leaders did not believe in the Trinity.

The early leaders did not get all the light in night or day. It came on a gradual basis and only as fast as they could handle what had been given.

There were a few that clung to some strange beliefs or at least we would call them strange today.

They do not worry me in making such claims against the SDA Church at all now.

Then we have the EGW/SOP issue that will never go away.

There will always be a few that will keep making the claim that we are a cult no matter what we say.

 

[OntheDL]

I was completely floored when I heard this. Someone told me that Seventh day Adventist are a cult and apparently we are all going to hell because we are not truly Christians. Why would someone think we are not Christians? Have anyone else heard this before?

Well, I think you should tell the person to ask the Roman Catholic church. The 'mother church' no longer considers SDA church a cult. The General Conference has made a deal with RCC in return for such, the SDA church officially will not push the 3 angel's message and the 'anti-catholic' teachings.

Who cares what anyone thinks? The bible says 'you will be hated by ALL men for my name sake'. Christ and His followers were considered a sect.

 

[KellyLeigh]

i was just shocked when I heard this. I dont care if someone else thinks I'm not "a christian" because I know God knows that I am a true believer and that's all that matters.

 

[Sophia7]

Well, I think you should tell the person to ask the Roman Catholic church. The 'mother church' no longer considers SDA church a cult. The General Conference has made a deal with RCC in return for such, the SDA church officially will not push the 3 angel's message and the 'anti-catholic' teachings.

Who cares what anyone thinks? The bible says 'you will be hated by ALL men for my name sake'. Christ and His followers were considered a sect.

Do you have proof of these claims? If you make such allegations, it would be a good idea to give evidence to back them up.

 

[tall73]

Do you have proof of these claims? If you make such allegations, it would be a good idea to give evidence to back them up.

Well there was the coin given to the vatican, the cardinal who spoke at College View and the vatican flag incident at the GC...but otherwise, I think it is just speculation. If the GC did make a deal I never got my pastoral memo

 

[Riddick]

I was completely floored when I heard this. Someone told me that Seventh day Adventist are a cult and apparently we are all going to hell because we are not truly Christians.

they may have been feeding you a line to get this very reaction out of you.

Why would someone think we are not Christians? Have [Has] anyone else heard this before?

misinformation.

 

[Cliff2]

Well, I think you should tell the person to ask the Roman Catholic church. The 'mother church' no longer considers SDA church a cult. The General Conference has made a deal with RCC in return for such, the SDA church officially will not push the 3 angel's message and the 'anti-catholic' teachings.

Who cares what anyone thinks? The bible says 'you will be hated by ALL men for my name sake'. Christ and His followers were considered a sect.

Interesting, I would like to see the memo that says such a thing.

I have never heard of it.

Although I have noticed that there seems to be a push to take it easy on the RCC.

Nothing official as far as I know.

 

[JESUSLUVA1]

I was completely floored when I heard this. Someone told me that Seventh day Adventist are a cult and apparently we are all going to hell because we are not truly Christians. Why would someone think we are not Christians? Have anyone else heard this before?

yeah i heard bout sumtin like dat we arent a cult u should have reported them and we're not going 2 hell because we woship on the sabbath and plus all denominationz except the satanic 1 r going 2 heaven

 

[ttreg]

yeah i heard bout sumtin like dat we arent a cult u should have reported them and we're not going 2 hell because we woship on the sabbath and plus all denominationz except the satanic 1 r going 2 heaven

we arent going to heaven cause we worship on sabbath its cause we accepted christ andd by the stanic demonination i guess ur meaning the catholic church. if by that your meaning that catholics arent going to heaven its no worse then someone saying SDA arent going to heaven [BIBLE]John 10:16[/BIBLE]

 

[DanPev]

Actually the Seventh-Day-Adventist church was officially considered a cult until the 1950's when certain conference leaders met with a guy called Walter Martin. One of the main reasons he considered us a cult was because most adventists believed that Jesus took the Post-Fall Nature, while evangelicals believed that he took the Pre-Fall nature.

Well, to get rid of the cult label these leaders met with him and changed that doctrine so he stopped considering the SDA church a cult.

However, that brought so much controversy that now the church officially accepts both teachings as acceptable.

 

[OntheDL]

Well there was the coin given to the vatican, the cardinal who spoke at College View and the vatican flag incident at the GC...but otherwise, I think it is just speculation. If the GC did make a deal I never got my pastoral memo

I didn't think you'd get a memo.

It goes way beyond just a medallion here, a masonic handshake there. There is a whole hidden agenda.

I have the article. I think the original is on sdadefend.com. But I can't find it right now. So I took pictures of it. Here they are.

http://cherrypicker.tripod.com/sp1.jpg
http://cherrypicker.tripod.com/sp2.jpg
http://cherrypicker.tripod.com/sp3.jpg
http://cherrypicker.tripod.com/sp4.jpg

I actually have proves of them teaching in our schools, seminaries, universites the new age thinking, new doctrines, and hypnotism right out of the book of the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola. Let me know if anyone is interested in those. Maybe I'll make a seperate thread.

 

[woobadooba]

I didn't think you'd get a memo.

It goes way beyond just a medallion here, a masonic handshake there. There is a whole hidden agenda.

I have the article. I think the original is on sdadefend.com. But I can't find it right now. So I took pictures of it. Here they are.

http://cherrypicker.tripod.com/sp1.jpg
http://cherrypicker.tripod.com/sp2.jpg
http://cherrypicker.tripod.com/sp3.jpg
http://cherrypicker.tripod.com/sp4.jpg

I actually have proves of them teaching in our schools, seminaries, universites the new age thinking, new doctrines, and hypnotism right out of the book of the Spiritual Exercises of St. Ignatius of Loyola. Let me know if anyone is interested in those. Maybe I'll make a seperate thread.

Please locate the letter so that it can be read.

I would also be interested in investigating the other allegations.

 

[tall73]

yeah, not sure about any meetings, but I do recall that guy was hard to get to talk to on the phone. I kept getting referred to his cell phone which he never answered!

In any case, if you want conspiratorial evidence I would think the events with the papacy billboards and the removal of those churches would be more convincing. But overall I have not seen the church tone down the Sabbath message.

 

[OntheDL]

Please locate the letter so that it can be read.

I would also be interested in investigating the other allegations.

Wooba,

Just click on the link. It should open up in a new window. Then move the mouse cursor to lower right corner of the picture. The embeded enlarge buttom will appear. Illustrated below. click on it view the pages. Let me know if that worked for you.

 

[tall73]

I don't mind if you share details on the conspiracy element.

But if you have burden for the Sabbath and our distinctive truths, then I would urge you to do something about it. You are sitting on the largest Christian Forum on the net, as far as the bigboards list show. There are people here looking for truth. There are 34 people right now, and many more at other times in GT. While not all are open to new ideas, some are. So if you want the message out, then go give it. There are constantly threads on the Sabbath, on the state of the dead, on the reformation, and even one right now on the sanctuary in GT. You could be posting in them.

There are forums where non-Christians inquire about salvation. There are forums where people ask for advice.

It is not wrong to discuss concerns in the church. And I think we need to. But if we are worried about the truth being muted we will only solve it by giving our example of spreading it, whether here or at our home church, etc. I would like to see more doing this from the Adventist forum here. If we are not, then why not? What good does it do to hash all this out if we tone down the message ourselves?

It is at the personal level that the work is done. Even as a pastor the GC has so little influence on me that if they disappeared tomorrow it would make little difference. Yes, they control the schools to a degree. Fair enough. But if churches go only by what their pastor says then we are already in trouble.And I have to say that when I attended school they were not holding back on the Sabbath...and that was not many years ago. Our thoelogical staff was quite conservative, and the one liberal who was there has now left. (This was at Union College). Now some of the other staff were liberal. But not the theology group.

I understand that at WWC, LL etc. it may be different. But even there the people in the churches can hold their leaders accountable.

If anything the GC has imposed tests on the schools of Adfventist Orthodoxy (partly as a response to abuses). You can read about some of the teachers complaints on the internet that they are having their heands theologically tied by having to agree to all the doctrines. This has been going on now for some time.

If the church is losing its distinctive truths there can be only two reasons.

1. They are not studying for themselves.
2. The distinctives are wrong.

 

[OntheDL]

I don't mind if you share details on the conspiracy element.

But if you have burden for the Sabbath and our distinctive truths, then I would urge you to do something about it. You are sitting on the largest Christian Forum on the net, as far as the bigboards list show. There are people here looking for truth. There are 34 people right now, and many more at other times in GT. While not all are open to new ideas, some are. So if you want the message out, then go give it. There are constantly threads on the Sabbath, on the state of the dead, on the reformation, and even one right now on the sanctuary in GT. You could be posting in them.

There are forums where non-Christians inquire about salvation. There are forums where people ask for advice.

It is not wrong to discuss concerns in the church. And I think we need to. But if we are worried about the truth being muted we will only solve it by giving our example of spreading it, whether here or at our home church, etc. I would like to see more doing this from the Adventist forum here. If we are not, then why not? What good does it do to hash all this out if we tone down the message ourselves?

It is at the personal level that the work is done. Even as a pastor the GC has so little influence on me that if they disappeared tomorrow it would make little difference. Yes, they control the schools to a degree. Fair enough. But if churches go only by what their pastor says then we are already in trouble.And I have to say that when I attended school they were not holding back on the Sabbath...and that was not many years ago. Our thoelogical staff was quite conservative, and the one liberal who was there has now left. (This was at Union College). Now some of the other staff were liberal. But not the theology group.

I understand that at WWC, LL etc. it may be different. But even there the people in the churches can hold their leaders accountable.

If anything the GC has imposed tests on the schools of Adfventist Orthodoxy (partly as a response to abuses). You can read about some of the teachers complaints on the internet that they are having their heands theologically tied by having to agree to all the doctrines. This has been going on now for some time.

If the church is losing its distinctive truths there can be only two reasons.

1. They are not studying for themselves.
2. The distinctives are wrong.

Right, for that concern I started the thread in the Traditional SDA forum. So that way the visitors come here seeking milk wouldn't find the meat.

I don't usually go to GT forum. Because there is just too much confusion there. And the discussions don't always yield fruits.

I didn't become a SDA because I couldn't find any other church. I did because I believe our historic message is still the present truth. Coming from the other side (atheist, then baptist), I know whats out there. If anyone says there is not unseen force working to destroy our message, that person needs to wake up. So I'll defend our biblical doctrines by means of telling other SDAs about this under-current.

I have passed out the materials to the members local to me. And I'll give away this information to as many as possible on the internet.

The problem with the SDA people today is that they don't know what they believe and that's by design. Hopefully more people get ahold of this and begin to study. I know God is in control. And the truth will ultimately triumph. All those sincerely seek will find. So the more people will get ready for what's soon-coming, the stronger the message it will get. And with the empowering holy spirit, it will someday swell to the Loud Cry.

 

[tall73]

Right, for that concern I started the thread in the Traditional SDA forum. So that way the visitors come here seeking milk wouldn't find the meat.

I don't usually go to GT forum. Because there is just too much confusion there. And the discussions don't always yield fruits.

I didn't become a SDA because I couldn't find any other church. I did because I believe our historic message is still the present truth. Coming from the other side (atheist, then baptist), I know whats out there. If anyone says there is not unseen force working to destroy our message, that person needs to wake up. So I'll defend our biblical doctrines by means of telling other SDAs about this under-current.

I have passed out the materials to the members local to me. And I'll give away this information to as many as possible on the internet.

The problem with the SDA people today is that they don't know what they believe and that's by design. Hopefully more people get ahold of this and begin to study. I know God is in control. And the truth will ultimately triumph. All those sincerely seek will find. So the more people will get ready for what's soon-coming, the stronger the message it will get. And with the empowering holy spirit, it will someday swell to the Loud Cry.

So you want to see the loud cry, but you don't want to lend your voice except to other Adventists?

If you are upset with the GC not proclaiming the Sabbath, but see your own role as only talking to other Adventists then I don't see why I should even entertain these notions.

If you want the message to go, get out and go.

And if GT has too much confusion, what do you expect the message to do? The message cannot triumph over confusion? That is not much of a message then. But while some conversations do not yield fruit, some of those in GT have.

The world is just as confusing. We must take the message to the world. if you have no burden to do that, then what do you have to offer me as an Adventist?

I have noticed this trend among many of the "remnant in the remnant." They have no burden for the actual taking of the remnant message to the nations--only to other Adventists.

 

[tall73]

Right, for that concern I started the thread in the Traditional SDA forum. So that way the visitors come here seeking milk wouldn't find the meat.

I do appreciate that step. And as I said before, I don't have a problem with discussing issues in the church. But the mission of the church is not to warn other Adventists. We need to be about the mission first and foremost.