Scriptures

[JacksLadder]

Thus since the N.T. was not inexistence at the time St. Paul was writing half the N.T. then sola scriptura can not be a possibility.

O.k. I get this but the OT was not codified at the time of St.Paul either from what I remember.In fact they had 3 different versions running around. So then following this line of argument there are no Holy Scriptures,They are just history books of the church. I know that you do not believe that but that is how this comes accross.This has always confused me about the physical decendents of the apostolic churches

 

[Michael G]

Jack, give me some time to think about this one. I will give you an answer later today.

 

[JacksLadder]

*Bump*

 

[JacksLadder]

*Bump*

 

[Michael G]

O.k. I get this but the OT was not codified at the time of St.Paul either from what I remember.In fact they had 3 different versions running around. So then following this line of argument there are no Holy Scriptures,They are just history books of the church. I know that you do not believe that but that is how this comes accross.This has always confused me about the physical decendents of the apostolic churches

Jack, I do not believe that, but I have a friend who calls herself a conserva-dox Jew who says just that. She says the Torah is scripture and everything else is basically Jewish history and biblical commentary.

I am still trying to figure out your question. Could you rephrase it for me?

 

[JacksLadder]

O.k. maybe if I ask this it might clear things up for me a little bit.

Physical Apostolic church desendants have different versions of the OT some have a couple of more books than others, some have less. Even in Jesus's time no offical OT cannon was put down. Who decided what books were authorized OT for the Orthodox church?

 

[Michael G]

O.k. maybe if I ask this it might clear things up for me a little bit.

Physical Apostolic church desendants have different versions of the OT some have a couple of more books than others, some have less. Even in Jesus's time no offical OT cannon was put down. Who decided what books were authorized OT for the Orthodox church?

The Councils of Hippo and Carthage in the years between 393-410 A.D. were the councils which codeified the canon of the bible, O.T. and N.T. There were earlier attempts to do this, including one by the Pope of Rome arround 382 A.D. but the question of the canon was not set until shortly after these councils.

 

[JacksLadder]

The Council of Carthage, called the third by Denzinger,[4] on 28 August 397 issued a canon of the Bible quoted as, "Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua son of Nun, Judges, Ruth, 4 books of Kingdoms, 2 books of Chronicles, Job, the Davidic Psalter, 5 books of Solomon, 12 books of Prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobias, Judith, Esther, 2 books of Ezra, 2 books of Maccabees, and in the New Testament: 4 books of Gospels, 1 book of Acts of the Apostles, 13 letters of the Apostle Paul, 1 letter of his to the Hebrews, 2 of Peter, 3 of John, 1 of James, 1 of Jude, and one book of the Apocalypse of John."

So the Ethiopian and Syriac Churhces are not Orthodox then. I am pretty sure they have different cannons.

 

[JacksLadder]

So the cannon from Carthage are all good for teaching and correction as according to the council they were approved as holy scripture , yes or no.

 

[Protoevangel]

Jack, you seem to be looking for something that just isn't there.

The cannon from Carthage didn't really "seal the deal", not in any final way, but instead made a guideline, that was still debated for centuries.They were still discussing the canon at the synod of Jerusalem. Believe it or not, the Greek canon and the Slavonic canon are slightly different... But we're all still Orthodox.

I know how tough this must be for you. Calvinism is so neat and tidy. But reality just dosen't work like that.

 

[JacksLadder]

It makes me very very very angry I that I hae been lied to for so long. I almost can't take it.

 

[Protoevangel]

It makes me very very very angry I that I hae been lied to for so long. I almost can't take it.

I think I understand. I felt the same for quite a while. I think it is a natural reaction, one that very well may be a necessary part of our growth. Just don't be too angry. The people who raised you in the Christian religion were misled, but their hearts were no doubt in the right place. Of course there will be some level of disquiet, but I hope and pray that in the end you will look back on your life as a protestant with at least a certain level of gratitude. It was there where you learned to love Jesus, where you learned to love the Holy Scriptures, and probably where you learned about absolute truth. There was a whole lot of good that came from that time. Don't throw away all the good that led you to this point.

Another friendly suggestion: Don't do anything to alienate those who loved you enough to get you to this point. Don't try to make them understand all this that you are just beginning to discern. Just keep learning yourself, and growing closer to Christ's Church. Let them see Christ in you. If you try too hard to pull them toward the Church, it most always ends in pushing them away from the Church. I offer you this so you don't repeat my own mistakes, I am still trying to heal damaged relationships from my early conversion.