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Nichole

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OK........so I have this friend who goes to a Baptist church (she was raised Catholic and went to a Catholic school) and she talks about how they memorize scripture so when prepared, they can quote it in discussions, arguments, etc.. Also, when she has a problem (like stress, fear, doubt, etc.) she goes to the Bible and looks that problem up and reads the scripture related to it and she feels so much better. She does not understand how we don't go around memorizing and quoting scripture, etc. I did tell her we say the Jesus prayer (how it calms me when I have been scared, worried, etc.). She said it sounded too Catholic. She then proceeded to go off on a tangent about how Catholics have confession and have to say so many Hail Marys and Our Fathers---which is right out of the Bible----and why do you have to confess your sins to a priest when you can do it yourself through prayer. Anyway......how does an Orthodox answer these questions?
 

DavidBryan

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Wow...quite a lot here...

She does not understand how we don't go around memorizing and quoting scripture, etc.

Well, I for one think we should do more of that. St. John Chrysostom said that "ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ."

She then proceeded to go off on a tangent about...why do you have to confess your sins to a priest when you can do it yourself through prayer. Anyway......how does an Orthodox answer these questions?

I think the Hail Mary/Our Father thing is good, but have her read James 5:14-15:

Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

St. James says that we can't just "do it ourselves through prayer." We have to go to the elders of the church to receive healing of our bodies AND our souls.
 
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Orthosdoxa

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she talks about how they memorize scripture so when prepared, they can quote it in discussions, arguments, etc....She does not understand how we don't go around memorizing and quoting scripture, etc.

Well, that is a difference. We Orthodox hate the Bible and would rather worship wood and paint.

*rolleyes*

Not rolling my eyes at you, but at people like her who think it's their job to judge a faith she most likely is quite uneducated on.

You'll hear more Scripture quoted during a Divine Liturgy than I EVER heard in the Baptist churches I grew up in, and that was a lot. Every Orthodox Christian SHOULD read their Bible daily, and I'm sure it would be a shock to her that *gasp* - many do!

I think the main difference here is that Protestants have nothing but their personal interpretations of an ancient book to guide them, and their feelings and emotions on it, which they claim is the guidance of the Holy Spirit. We have the Fathers, Holy Tradition, the wisdom of the Saints, the Church, our spiritual fathers, AND the Bible to guide us. Protestantism is cut off from much of Christian history, and many groups re-invent the wheel each generation, using just the Bible (their interpretation of it, that is). We have what is full, complete, and uncorrupted from the beginning. The Bible is just a piece, albeit a very important and wonderful piece, of a much larger puzzle. Protestants think it's the be all end all. It's just a huge difference in mindsets. For some Protestants, it's nearly worshipping the Bible. I find Orthodoxy to be a much more balanced view. After all, Christ didn't come to write a book - He came to found a Church. Check out the faq on this site - he might have something further.

It's kinda like if I have 10 kids and someone keep insisting, WHY don't you pay more attention to that one!? He's the most important! And I say, Yes, of course he's important, and he's so precious to me...but there are others also very important and precious. I need to pay attention to ALL of them. (Not a good analogy, but it's late and all I could come up with.)

She said it sounded too Catholic.

Lord Jesus Christ, Son of the Living God, have mercy on me, a sinner. She has a problem with that being too Catholic? Niiiiice. There's a word for what we're dealing with here - Rome-aphobia. There are certain Protestant groups who simply have a knee jerk reaction to anything that looks like the RCC. My MIL, for example, had a fit when we told her we were thinking about naming our daughter Magdalena, bc it sounded too Catholic. *rolleyes* I think there's only going to be a certain amount you can reason with her, honestly. Praying for her and being a loving Christian example are your best bets.

And go one verse further than David mentioned...16, Confess your sins to one another, that ye may be healed. In the early Church, all Christians confessed their sins in front of the whole Church. As the Church grew, that became less practical, and they are now confessed in front of the priest, who represents the Church.

Sorry if I sound cranky, but I hope this helps a bit.
 
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NyssaTheHobbit

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OK........so I have this friend who goes to a Baptist church (she was raised Catholic and went to a Catholic school) and she talks about how they memorize scripture so when prepared, they can quote it in discussions, arguments, etc.. Also, when she has a problem (like stress, fear, doubt, etc.) she goes to the Bible and looks that problem up and reads the scripture related to it and she feels so much better. She does not understand how we don't go around memorizing and quoting scripture, etc. I did tell her we say the Jesus prayer (how it calms me when I have been scared, worried, etc.). She said it sounded too Catholic. She then proceeded to go off on a tangent about how Catholics have confession and have to say so many Hail Marys and Our Fathers---which is right out of the Bible----and why do you have to confess your sins to a priest when you can do it yourself through prayer. Anyway......how does an Orthodox answer these questions?

Hmmmm......I've seen movies in which characters spouted off Bible verses better than a preacher. I always thought that was ludicrous--NOBODY quotes every related verse on a subject from memory! But then again, if they were Baptist characters, maybe it is realistic after all. ;)
 
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Padraig

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Wow...quite a lot here...



Well, I for one think we should do more of that. St. John Chrysostom said that "ignorance of the Scriptures is ignorance of Christ."
I heartily second this. Knowing Scripture is the duty of every Orthodox Christian.

Dn Kevin
 
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RoseofLima

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I am but a brand new inquirer into the Faith- but I have noticed that Scripture quoting from Protestants is often just quoting without understanding, or taking the the verse as part of the entirety of Scripture or even in the context of the passage.

If I am not mistaken, the Orthodox do believe that one can make a personal confession of sins and be forgiven them---but also that Jesus is present in sacramental confession as Divine Physician. The emphasis in confession is healing not punishment.

One of the main problems in talking to Protestants in regards to any of the sacraments is that they fundamentally reject sacramental tehology. We are a material and spiritual creation, and we need God both tangibly as well as accepting His intangible nature. So a simplified explanantion of sacraments is sometimes a good thing to say-- talking about how we are created body and soul- seen and unseen. Talking about in Genesis how God breathes into the nostrils of man and how his spirit blew as a wind over the water- again the seen and unseen. The Ark of the Covenant- the pillar of fire residing above it indicating God's presence- the seen and the unseen. Also that God Himself is seen and unseen-- God the Father unseen, GOd the Son becomes human. It can be helpful to use things like that to explain the sacramental life-- the life of visible signs of unseen realities. Even if they end up not agreeing, I think it can help others understand that the Scriptures are still the basis.
 
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Jacob4707

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Hmmmm......I've seen movies in which characters spouted off Bible verses better than a preacher. I always thought that was ludicrous--NOBODY quotes every related verse on a subject from memory! But then again, if they were Baptist characters, maybe it is realistic after all. ;)

Well, Jules Winnfield did take a few liberties with his Ezekiel passage - i.e., he slightly changed the wording each time

url
 
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Guineverelyndy

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If I understand all the responders here correctly, it seems like the Orthodox are encouraged to memorize Scripture for edification. When I was Protestant I often memorized Scripture for a couple of different reasons. One was to be able to share the Gospel on the spot, another was to have a defense of God's word in the middle of temptation (which IS really helpful!), and the other was so that you could meditate on God's Word throughout the day. Honestly, I think it's almost worse than useless to memorize for the first reason. It's ridiculously intimidating and pressuring to someone, as if they have to make a decision *right now*! But the other two reasons are good and have helped me a lot. And yeah, I can rattle 'em off pretty good. ;) I used to be in Bible quizzing for three years, which meant I was memorizing a chapter or two word-perfect every month. One of the best things I ever did.
 
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Orthocat

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1) Saying you must be able to quote scripture on cue is ridiculous. Satan quoted scripture...out of context...just like we hear quite often in many churches. That means nothing.
I could never quote scripture. I have no memory for it, thanks to the 70's. :sigh:
But I carry my Bible. And I can find what I'm looking for, in the general direction, until I have it. Then I'll have them read it, in its full context, and then we'll discuss it.

One other thing - some Protestants are real good about the New Testament, but the Old...not so much. We do the Psalms continuously, more than any other Christian church I've ever been to. And what a blessing it is to know those...
 
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NyssaTheHobbit

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Well, Jules Winnfield did take a few liberties with his Ezekiel passage - i.e., he slightly changed the wording each time

LOL

I am but a brand new inquirer into the Faith- but I have noticed that Scripture quoting from Protestants is often just quoting without understanding, or taking the the verse as part of the entirety of Scripture or even in the context of the passage.

That's one of my main problems with web forums in which people are told to use Bible quotes to back up their statements. I would often use other sources in such forums, since I realized the futility of using Bible verses when you were really arguing different systems of theology. I think I got chided for it, too. :) The thing is, after reading the first part of "Purpose-Driven Life" with a Bible in hand, I discovered that prooftexting--taking verses out of context to prove a point--is a real danger in modern Protestant books and forums. I've seen whole blocks of text quoted on forums to "prove" somebody's assertion. Oftentimes, the assertion is completely wrong by Orthodox standards. But you can't prove that simply with the Bible; you need the traditions and patristic sources.
 
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SeraphimSarov

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We do the Psalms continuously, more than any other Christian church I've ever been to. And what a blessing it is to know those...

What a huge help that is when there is no prayer book handy and you don't know what to pray for! :)
 
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