Scripture and Creation.

[lucaspa]

Originally posted by Athlon4all
This is saying exactly what it says its saying, that creation took 6 days.

Some more evidence to falsify evolution in the scripture falls in Genesis 3 in the Adamic Covenant. In that covenant, God says that "dust you are and dust you shall return." Because thats in the curse because of sin, that shows that there was no physical death (dust cannot mean spiritual death) before the fall. Sadly however, many Christians have compromised this belief as well in order to allow for Evolution.

Scripture clearly teaches that there was no death or suffering before the sin of Man, which Evolution requires. Scripture also clearly teaches that the earth was made in 6 days, not billions of years, which Evolution requires as well.

None of this falsifies evolution. It simply states that your literal interpretation of Scripture is falsified by evolution.

There was death before the sin even in a literal interpretation, because in Genesis 3:22-23 Adam and Eve are kicked out of the Garden before they can eat of the Tree of Life and therefore live forever. Since they were forbidden to eat of the tree, then they were going to die anyway.

The "there was no death before sin" is not literal Biblical, but a human non literal interpretation by conservative Christians who otherwise claim you shouldn't have non literal interpretations.  Of course, that isn't the end of their non-literal interpretations, because they then will also attribute unmentioned daughters to Adam and Eve so Cain can have a wife.

 

[wblastyn]

wblastyn ,

No since Gravioty is and always was here(we feel and expirence it)its not quite religious.
Evolution has never been seen so it is religious just like God has
never been physicaly seen.

No, we cannot see gravity, we can see the effects of gravity but not gravity itself. We cannot sit and watch something evolve, but we can see the effects of evolution.

 

[Hector Medina]

wblastyn typed,


No, we cannot see gravity, we can see the effects of gravity but not gravity itself. We cannot sit and watch something evolve, but we can see the effects of evolution.


What effects of the evolution theory do we see???
Observe and expriment something........

Gravity is not supposed to be seen,it is purely felt!
It observed every day and can be expirmented w/ very easily.
Truly a powerful scientific law and truly scientific.
And it does not at all contradict the scriptures.


In Christ,

Hector

 

[lithium.]

.

 

[Jerry Smith]

Once again Hector, evolution is not held on to with "ardor and faith". It is accepted provisionally on the basis of observational evidence.

We can observe gravity, and we can observe evolution. We can theorize about gravity and test those theories - and we can do the same for evolution.

Religion and science are two separate methods for gaining knowledge. Evolution is knowledge that has been gained by scientific methods, not religious ones.

You are repeating falsehoods when you say that evolution is a religion.

 

[ocean]

Evolution is NOT a religion, creationism is a religion.

Creationism fits all the definitions of a religion (It involves a deity, it is held on to with ardor and faith without evidence, it is the teaching of some churches), evolution fits none of those definitions.

Evolution is a scientific theory, not a religion.

 

[Jiminey Cricket]

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[Jiminey Cricket]

let me try that again.. Have no clue how is got so messed up:

Here are the two premises on which the various theories of evolution are based:

1 - This is the evolutionary formula for making a universe:

Nothing + nothing = two elements + time = 92 natural elements + time = all physical laws and a completely structured universe of galaxies, systems, stars, planets, and moons orbiting in perfect balance and order.

2 - This is the evolutionary formula for making life:

Dirt + water + time = living creatures.

Evolutionists theorize that the above two formulas can enable everything about us to make itself--with the exception of man-made things, such as automobiles or buildings. Complicated things, such as wooden boxes with nails in them, require thought, intelligence, and careful workmanship. But everything else about us in nature, such as hummingbirds and the human eye, is declared to be the result of accidental mishaps, random confusion, and time. You will not even need raw materials to begin with. They make themselves too.

 

[Jerry Smith]

I believe it might have gotten messed up because it was copied and pasted from DrDino.com.

You should make some kind of note that it is quoted material, and give credit to the source.

Considering that these words are a sore misrepresentation of the science they are intended to criticize, their absurdity speaks only to the imagination of their author (Kent Hovind), and does not reflect on the science. The criticism by "straw man" fails.

 

[LiveFreeOrDie]

Originally posted by Jiminey Cricket
let me try that again.. Have no clue how is got so messed up:

Here are the two premises on which the various theories of evolution are based:

1 - This is the evolutionary formula for making a universe:

Nothing + nothing = two elements + time = 92 natural elements + time = all physical laws and a completely structured universe of galaxies, systems, stars, planets, and moons orbiting in perfect balance and order.

Straw man #1. The origin of the universe is cosmology, not evolution. Sorry.

2 - This is the evolutionary formula for making life:

Dirt + water + time = living creatures.

Straw man #2. Theories for the origin of life from non-living precursors are referred to as abiogenesis. Evolution explains how diverse species arose after life got going.

Evolutionists theorize that the above two formulas can enable everything about us to make itself--with the exception of man-made things, such as automobiles or buildings. Complicated things, such as wooden boxes with nails in them, require thought, intelligence, and careful workmanship. But everything else about us in nature, such as hummingbirds and the human eye, is declared to be the result of accidental mishaps, random confusion, and time. You will not even need raw materials to begin with. They make themselves too.

Unfortunately, your little caricature of what evolutionists theorize is flat out wrong. I'm always amazed that people with such obvious ignorance can display such arrogance.

 

[Jiminey Cricket]

Ouch hit a nerve apparently Live Free...

Jerry, I never claimed that statement was mine. Sorry I didn't disclose the source. Not that I needed too, you knew where it was from. I was simply just commenting on how it was something to really think about. I am not trying to criticize anyone.

In all respect Live Free, I really do think it's something to think about regardless of how you tear it apart.

When will we see somthing evolve? There is no proof at all that we did. Not one piece of evidence. Its all theory. In 2000 years you would think that something would have evolved. Somewhere.

If we did evolve then poor us. We end up here, on earth, with no hope! We end up here by chance, live a life, an intelligent one at that, age, (don't evolve), die and then thats it. No more thoughts, feelings, no existence. It's just over. Sad. Your here and you have aproximatly 70+ years to enjoy it, then your out of here. Are you comfortable feeling that when you take your last breath you will just be non-existent? Am I understanding that you also don't believe in hell? I figure you don't because that would have you accepting a spiritual world outside of this world. Thus putting you somewhere in the diety scheme of things. So am I correct in thinking that you feel you will just be non-existent?

Granted this is my view, and what I believe. I choose to put my faith in Christ and what he did for mankind on the cross at calvary. I am not interested in attacking you, or causing you to feel you need to defend yourself. I like discussing issues. Attacks are not for me. Also, I am not ignorant or displaying arrogance. I don't claim to know or understand everything there is to know about evolution. I respect your views.&nbsp;

"straw girl" is done for now...

 

[Doubting Thomas]

Not to derail the thread, but Cricket...why would anyone be disturbed by the prospect of non-existence? Are you disturbed by all that time prior to your gestation and birth when you were non-existent? What would be the difference?

 

[lithium.]

I don't have a problem with just dying and then nothing. That is nature and I'm not going to argue with nature.

 

[Jerry Smith]

Originally posted by Jiminey Cricket
Jerry, I never claimed that statement was mine. Sorry I didn't disclose the source.

As a tip, you should always disclose your source. To fail to when copying someone else's work is plagiarism.

Not that I needed too, you knew where it was from.

I 'happened' to know. Were you sure that everyone who read your post would know where it came from?

I was simply just commenting on how it was something to really think about. I am not trying to criticize anyone.

Criticism is a good thing. It's&nbsp;how we&nbsp;all help one another learn, and help&nbsp;keep each other honest. Please don't take offense&nbsp;to criticism. You are&nbsp;young enough that you might&nbsp;not have realized before how serious plagiarism&nbsp;is or that this is what you were doing. After I pointed it out to you, you are able to avoid making the same mistake again.&nbsp;&nbsp;

In all respect Live Free, I really do think it's something to think about regardless of how you tear it apart.

Actually he went kind of easy on it. The fact is that all of these equations of "+time" are extremely bad mischaracterizations of the science. For instance, &nbsp;"two elements + time = 92 natural elements ..." - neglects to mention nuclear fusion.&nbsp;A volume of hydrogen and/or helium, subjected to enough gravitational pressure will eventually begin a fusion reaction, and that fusion reaction will result in heavier elements. Many elements are part of the decay sequence of some of the heavier elements formed by fusion. The characature of "two elements + time = 92 natural elements" leaves out the important mechanisms known to be responsible for the formation of various elements. It ignores the science, and focuses on a substitute that some people might not notice is the real thing - and then it mocks that substitute as absurd, hoping others will think it is the science, not the straw man, which is absurd.

When will we see somthing evolve?

Scientists&nbsp;have seen many&nbsp;new species evolve. It doesn't look like a big deal to the average joe, who really can't be expected to tell two species apart from one another in many cases. Yet it is observed to happen fairly frequently. We see fossil evidence of evolution of most of the larger classes of organisms that exist, and we have other types of evidence in the form of molecular homologies, biogeographical distributions, etc.

There is no proof at all that we did. Not one piece of evidence.

There is substantial evidence that humans and apes evolved from a common ancestor within the last 6 million years. You may not be aware of that evidence, but that can be corrected.

Its all theory. In 2000 years you would think that something would have evolved. Somewhere.

And you would be right. You can learn about a few of the many observed instances where new species evolved here:

http://talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

Technically,&nbsp;you can observe evolution in&nbsp;almost every generation of living things. Including micro-evolution (the evolution&nbsp;of organisms within a species) the number of&nbsp;documented and observed instances of evolution is&nbsp;extremely large.&nbsp;

If we did evolve then poor us. We end up here, on earth, with no hope! We end up here by chance, live a life, an intelligent one at that, age, (don't evolve), die and then thats it.

Or possibly not. Perhaps we evolved and there is a loving God ready to take us all home after we die. Many people believe that. The question doesn't trouble me much, because - as someone else pointed out - nonexistance shouldn't be any worse after life than it was before.

That's all for now. Welcome to the forum, by the way!

 

[Jiminey Cricket]

Hey Thomas,,

Good thought... Guess I would have to say that prior to my birth and of course "not existing" I would not have the means of being disturbed. I didn't exist. But now, having been born, using a mind and body that thinks, feels, loves, etc.. I just can't fathem just ending up as nothing.

So, the difference would be having knowledge and the experience of life. It certainly changes things. I know some non-christians struggle with the idea of just not existing anymore. For one, my uncle claims he is an athiest. He believes in evolution. But yet he is bugged that when he dies that it will just be over. That he will no longer have a mind to think with etc.

So maybe he is waivering is his beliefs. He has mentioned that he believes in a higher power, a spiritual world but not a deity (God). But yet, remains to accept the evolution stuff.

Are there people out there, scientist, trying to perfect the human so we evolve to something better? Is that why there is such a interest in cloning? What about you...do you think there are spiritual beings?&nbsp;


Thanks for the question. It does make one think. However, for now, I will stick with Christ.

 

[Jerry Smith]

Thanks for the question. It does make one think. However, for now, I will stick with Christ.

No one here cares to see you abandon your faith. Christ is not the same as disbelief in science. You can accept both science and Christ if you please to.

I hope you noticed my last post to you (before your last reply).

 

[lithium.]

So maybe he is waivering is his beliefs. He has mentioned that he believes in a higher power, a spiritual world but not a deity (God). But yet, remains to accept the evolution stuff.

Well it seems to me you think evolution equals atheism when it doesn't.

 

[LiveFreeOrDie]

Originally posted by Jiminey Cricket
When will we see somthing evolve? There is no proof at all that we did. Not one piece of evidence. Its all theory.

Where did you get the idea that there wasn't any evidence for evolution? In fact, there is quite an overwhelming amount. This site is the best overview I have found of the broad case for evolution.

In 2000 years you would think that something would have evolved. Somewhere.

Evolution has been observed. See here.

If we did evolve then poor us. We end up here, on earth, with no hope! We end up here by chance, live a life, an intelligent one at that, age, (don't evolve), die and then thats it. No more thoughts, feelings, no existence. It's just over. Sad. Your here and you have aproximatly 70+ years to enjoy it, then your out of here.

That's philosophy and metaphysics, not science. There are many people who have found fulfillment in life without the need for an afterlife. For a start, see what the humanists have to say.

Are you comfortable feeling that when you take your last breath you will just be non-existent?

Comfortable? Heck no. But where does it say I have to be comfortable with reality?

I'd rather live fully aware of and in acknowledgement of the reality around me than to live with a false hope based on a fanstasy.

I choose to put my faith in Christ and what he did for mankind on the cross at calvary.

How do you know he really did those things the Bible says? How do you know it's not just a story?

 

[Jiminey Cricket]

Hi Jerry,

Yep, got the post. Thanks for the welcome! I will check out the links too..

I do believe in science. We have discovered so much through science and developed so much. The lives that are saved alone by things discovered in science are amazing.

I just don't see the concept on the creation of the earth and life that science gives. I guess I am here just trying to understand it.

 

[Jerry Smith]

I just don't see the concept on the creation of the earth and life that science gives. I guess I am here just trying to understand it.

That's fantastic. You've got an amazing trip ahead of you!!