Scripture alone regarding confessing sins.

[chestertonrules]

With the Catholics boycotting I'll take this opportunity to post this to hear from different protestant sect.

I've often been troubled by the weight put upon human beings (catholic priests) of listening to and dealing with thousands of peoples sins I personally don't think it is right to put this on another human.

I am interested in 1 thing only, "what saith scripture about confession to others"

John 20
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."
John 20
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

 

[ticker]

It was just fine so long as you:
1. Did it in rmemebrance of Him
2. Did it with the proper heart



Everything else is just extrabiblical tradition and legalism.

Thanks Mont....I agree with you.

I was just making a point to show how silly the idea is that you have to do things a "certain" ritualistic way (...that really only a certain percentage of religious Christians are privy to) to be living the "proper" Christian life.


Ha, ha...

I actually remember once thinking I was an "Orthodox" Christian (because of my background and upbringing), feeling this false sense of belonging to what I thought was the "original church", and taking this false sense of comfort in thinking I was doing all the "right" things.....and all the while would be questioning the "holliness" of my other Christian friends who would do communion with Welch's while rocking out at church in their sweat pants.

Once I started to understand though the true meaning of Christianity....(that any holliness we attain has nothing to do with how we act or what we do, but comes simply from our accepting of Christ), I looked back at myself and seriously cringed at how ludacris it was to think that I had the "right" religion as a Christian and therefore did the "right" things....(when religion actually does nothing but make you think you have to chase around something you already have....everything).

Boy.....did I become a more peaceful, joyful, and pleasant person when I realized that truth.......funny how it made me start to be behave more Christ-like than ever before too. Hmmmmmm....wonder how that works.

 

[simonthezealot]

Thanks Mont....I agree with you.

I was just making a point to show how silly the idea is that you have to do things a "certain" ritualistic way (...that really only a certain percentage of religious Christians are privy to) to be living the "proper" Christian life.


Ha, ha...

I actually remember once thinking I was an "Orthodox" Christian (because of my background and upbringing), feeling this false sense of belonging to what I thought was the "original church", and taking this false sense of comfort in thinking I was doing all the "right" things.....and all the while would be questioning the "holliness" of my other Christian friends who would do communion with Welch's while rocking out at church in their sweat pants.

Once I started to understand though the true meaning of Christianity....(that any holliness we attain has nothing to do with how we act or what we do, but comes simply from our accepting of Christ), I looked back at myself and seriously cringed at how ludacris it was to think I had the "right" religion as a Christian, and therefore did the "right" things....(when religion actually does nothing but make you think you have to chase around something you already have....everything).

Boy.....did I become a more peaceful, joyful, and pleasant person when I realized that truth.......funny how it made me start to be behave more Christ-like than ever before too. Hmmmmmm....wonder how that works.

What an absolutely fabulous post...
Thanks Ticker! you summarised me better than I could have myself.

 

[mont974x4]

Ticker did make a great post. It summed up the Christian walk quite well.

 

[Kristos]

Thanks Mont....I agree with you.

I was just making a point to show how silly the idea is that you have to do things a "certain" ritualistic way (...that really only a certain percentage of religious Christians are privy to) to be living the "proper" Christian life.


Ha, ha...

I actually remember once thinking I was an "Orthodox" Christian (because of my background and upbringing), feeling this false sense of belonging to what I thought was the "original church", and taking this false sense of comfort in thinking I was doing all the "right" things.....and all the while would be questioning the "holliness" of my other Christian friends who would do communion with Welch's while rocking out at church in their sweat pants.

Once I started to understand though the true meaning of Christianity....(that any holliness we attain has nothing to do with how we act or what we do, but comes simply from our accepting of Christ), I looked back at myself and seriously cringed at how ludacris it was to think I had the "right" religion as a Christian, and therefore did the "right" things....(when religion actually does nothing but make you think you have to chase around something you already have....everything).

Boy.....did I become a more peaceful, joyful, and pleasant person when I realized that truth.......funny how it made me start to be behave more Christ-like than ever before too. Hmmmmmm....wonder how that works.

Absolutely not. The bread of heaven is the Word of God. The labor of planting the Word of God in the heart requires such effect that it is called a struggle. Only a servant of Christ during his life on earth feeds on heavenly bread in the sweat of his brow by constantly struggling with the carnal mind, by canstantly laboring at the cultivation of virtues.

See the parable of the sower. Mt 13/Mk 4/Lk 8

and Paul 1st letter to the Cornishgamehens:

1Co 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: but each shall receive his own reward according to his own labor.

Neglect of bodily discipline make men like animals who give free rein and scope to their bodily passions.

 

[Kristos]

Ticker did make a great post. It summed up the Christian walk quite well.

I would have to disagree. I think it misses the mark in many ways. See my previous post. This is nothing more than "feel good theology". It's like those diet pills that are supposed make you thin without exercise. They don't work!

 

[mont974x4]

I would have to disagree. I think it misses the mark in many ways. See my previous post. This is nothing more than "feel good theology". It's like those diet pills that are supposed make you thin without exercise. They don't work!

It was a nutshell...not an all inclusive explanation.

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

You do know that people read a post like this and get immediatey turned off.....because it more or less suggests that you have to "study" Christianity as if it were some university course you need to graduate from.....with, of course, the implication that you also might fail.

I might hazard that by "people get turned off" you mean that YOU get turned off.

That's ok, I get turned off also when I read "just relax and trust Jesus" when the scriptures tell us "study to show yourself approved" and "work out your salvation with fear and trembling."
Yes, I suppose that what I have said does turn some people off, being as they would like an easier sofetr gospel, kind of like spiritual aspirin.

We live in an era when people watch tv and don't read thick books. Be that as it may, Christianity is not primarily nor necessarily cerebral. Of course, if one has been gifted with intellect, one is answerable to God for what they have done with it.

Well, guess what. There are many, many, many Christians in this world (people who have heard about Jesus and have given their hearts to Him) who can't read, can't write, who have learning disabilites, or who simply just aren't all that bright.

I covered this in my previous post. My post was about more than intellect, it was about action. The simple understand intuitively that truth walks and nonsense talks.

And there are also many more who don't have access to churches, don't have access to bibles, or don't have access to priests.....not to mention the "Orthodox version" of all these.

I believe you were looking for the 'small o' there.

Factors such as oppression, poverty, illness, lack of intellect, or lack of exposure and resources, etc... could conceivably keep allllllll these Christians from knowing the "right" way then

Oppression has made it clear which is the "right way:" self-sacrifice, true faith, and reverence for the scriptures- whether found in written word, icons, or living letters. Eastern Orthodox Christians have experienced oppression as a fact of life for the past 10 centuries.

(...Orthodoxy).

Ortho= right or straight
Doxa= glory or praise.

Eastern Orthdoxy is not about theological definitions, it's about giving God glory as He deserves and as the Church understands (as the bible expresses it in totality)

So you think that allllll these Christians aren't gonna have a "proper" Christian life just because they're not following the "right" religious rules Orthodoxy has come up with?

Sounds like you have some misconceptions about Orthodox Christianity- perhaps even some prejudices.

The center of Eastern Orthodox Christianity has always been the simple and the pious, those who embrace the Way, not just 'the explanation.'
We do not have the dependence on preachers to spoon-feed the latest doctrine or feel good mantra that is SO prominent in 21st century American Christianity

.....oh boy.

Jesus is all you need bud, 'cause Christianity is not a religion....sorry to break it to ya.

In point of fact, Jesus is NOT all I need, I need the Father, and I need the infilling of the Holy Spirit. I need the company of innumerable angels and the spirits of righteous men made just. I need the fellowship of suffering and the prayers of the saints. I need my brethren just as they need me. So happens that all of my brethren are NOT Eastern Orthodox.

Sorry to break it to you, but your explanation of Christianity does NOT cut it. You say that Christianity is not a religion- I won't even enetr that old argument. What Christianity is not is a slacker Kingdom where we just need Jesus and to feel ok about ourselves in some post-Freudian therapeutic sense.

What I want, and pray for, is a life that is empowered by God, led by the Spirit, informed by the Fathers and Mothers of ages past and this one as well.

I want a stout Christianity that demands of me my life, not a Christianity that is attached to my life.

I'm quite certain that we have both now misrepresented what the other was saying- but I wanted to address the
objections you raised as they relate to contemporary paradigms of what Christianity in fact is all about.

 

[Epiphanygirl]

I might hazard that by "people get turned off" you mean that YOU get turned off.

That's ok, I get turned off also when I read "just relax and trust Jesus" when the scriptures tell us "study to show yourself approved" and "work out your salvation with fear and trembling."
Yes, I suppose that what I have said does turn some people off, being as they would like an easier sofetr gospel, kind of like spiritual aspirin.

We live in an era when people watch tv and don't read thick books. Be that as it may, Christianity is not primarily nor necessarily cerebral. Of course, if one has been gifted with intellect, one is answerable to God for what they have done with it.


I covered this in my previous post. My post was about more than intellect, it was about action. The simple understand intuitively that truth walks and nonsense talks.


I believe you were looking for the 'small o' there.


Oppression has made it clear which is the "right way:" self-sacrifice, true faith, and reverence for the scriptures- whether found in written word, icons, or living letters. Eastern Orthodox Christians have experienced oppression as a fact of life for the past 10 centuries.


Ortho= right or straight
Doxa= glory or praise.

Eastern Orthdoxy is not about theological definitions, it's about giving God glory as He deserves and as the Church understands (as the bible expresses it in totality)


Sounds like you have some misconceptions about Orthodox Christianity- perhaps even some prejudices.

The center of Eastern Orthodox Christianity has always been the simple and the pious, those who embrace the Way, not just 'the explanation.'
We do not have the dependence on preachers to spoon-feed the latest doctrine or feel good mantra that is SO prominent in 21st century American Christianity


In point of fact, Jesus is NOT all I need, I need the Father, and I need the infilling of the Holy Spirit. I need the company of innumerable angels and the spirits of righteous men made just. I need the fellowship of suffering and the prayers of the saints. I need my brethren just as they need me. So happens that all of my brethren are NOT Eastern Orthodox.

Sorry to break it to you, but your explanation of Christianity does NOT cut it. You say that Christianity is not a religion- I won't even enetr that old argument. What Christianity is not is a slacker Kingdom where we just need Jesus and to feel ok about ourselves in some post-Freudian therapeutic sense.

What I want, and pray for, is a life that is empowered by God, led by the Spirit, informed by the Fathers and Mothers of ages past and this one as well.

I want a stout Christianity that demands of me my life, not a Christianity that is attached to my life.

I'm quite certain that we have both now misrepresented what the other was saying- but I wanted to address the
objections you raised as they relate to contemporary paradigms of what Christianity in fact is all about.

My brain is still fried from having the Flu, but what you said hits home. THANK YOU!

 

[lionroar0]

OT: off topic.

The center of Eastern Orthodox Christianity has always been the simple and the pious, those who embrace the Way, not just 'the explanation.'
We do not have the dependence on preachers to spoon-feed the latest doctrine or feel good mantra that is SO prominent in 21st century American Christianity

Trent(intellectual assent. Where is that in the Bible?) and Tradition is infused with the Word of God.

Peace

 

[simonthezealot]

I would have to disagree. I think it misses the mark in many ways. See my previous post. This is nothing more than "feel good theology". It's like those diet pills that are supposed make you thin without exercise. They don't work!

"feel good theology"? this comment to me indicates that you aren't able to understand what he means, tickers simple yet accurate testimony is nearly identical to mine and you know since i've walked that walk over the past three years the number of people in my life i've seen come to the Lord with Him using me as a tool has been unbeleivable not to mention Him revealing Himself to me in some very profound ways...Tell me, aren't these the fruits our faith is to be judged by? It's NOT a feeling friend it is spirit and truth. The Holy Spirits presence in my life is unbelievable and I'd be willing to bet ticker would say the same.

 

[Gwenyfur]

I might hazard that by "people get turned off" you mean that YOU get turned off.

That's ok, I get turned off also when I read "just relax and trust Jesus" when the scriptures tell us "study to show yourself approved" and "work out your salvation with fear and trembling."
Yes, I suppose that what I have said does turn some people off, being as they would like an easier sofetr gospel, kind of like spiritual aspirin.

We live in an era when people watch tv and don't read thick books. Be that as it may, Christianity is not primarily nor necessarily cerebral. Of course, if one has been gifted with intellect, one is answerable to God for what they have done with it.


I covered this in my previous post. My post was about more than intellect, it was about action. The simple understand intuitively that truth walks and nonsense talks.


I believe you were looking for the 'small o' there.


Oppression has made it clear which is the "right way:" self-sacrifice, true faith, and reverence for the scriptures- whether found in written word, icons, or living letters. Eastern Orthodox Christians have experienced oppression as a fact of life for the past 10 centuries.


Ortho= right or straight
Doxa= glory or praise.

Eastern Orthdoxy is not about theological definitions, it's about giving God glory as He deserves and as the Church understands (as the bible expresses it in totality)


Sounds like you have some misconceptions about Orthodox Christianity- perhaps even some prejudices.

The center of Eastern Orthodox Christianity has always been the simple and the pious, those who embrace the Way, not just 'the explanation.'
We do not have the dependence on preachers to spoon-feed the latest doctrine or feel good mantra that is SO prominent in 21st century American Christianity


In point of fact, Jesus is NOT all I need, I need the Father, and I need the infilling of the Holy Spirit. I need the company of innumerable angels and the spirits of righteous men made just. I need the fellowship of suffering and the prayers of the saints. I need my brethren just as they need me. So happens that all of my brethren are NOT Eastern Orthodox.

Sorry to break it to you, but your explanation of Christianity does NOT cut it. You say that Christianity is not a religion- I won't even enetr that old argument. What Christianity is not is a slacker Kingdom where we just need Jesus and to feel ok about ourselves in some post-Freudian therapeutic sense.

What I want, and pray for, is a life that is empowered by God, led by the Spirit, informed by the Fathers and Mothers of ages past and this one as well.

I want a stout Christianity that demands of me my life, not a Christianity that is attached to my life.

I'm quite certain that we have both now misrepresented what the other was saying- but I wanted to address the
objections you raised as they relate to contemporary paradigms of what Christianity in fact is all about.

Bless you brother!

 

[ticker]

"feel good theology"? this comment to me indicates that you aren't able to understand what he means,

It's interesting how some people automatically think that the idea of putting your full trust in God's grace is always just some "easy" thing you do.

tickers simple yet accurate testimony is nearly identical to mine and you know since i've walked that walk over the past three years the number of people in my life i've seen come to the Lord with Him using me as a tool has been unbeleivable not to mention Him revealing Himself to me in some very profound ways...

Resting in Christ in this way has done the very same for me....where I bless my neighbours everyday in a variety of ways just by being me...and by letting the joy, care, and devotion of Jesus shine through, often in ways that are unexpected or unintentinal.

Even with Christians....I'll often get tons of Reps on these boards for posts that explain the fullness of God's grace and our completeness in Christ (...something I take absolutely no credit for - the credit is all Christ's), and will have people actually tell me things like, "This post has lifted a veil from my eyes!" or "It's all so clear to me now!"....it's great.

As you've seen here though, there are of course religious posters (...who also believe you have to live a certain way to be a "proper" Christian) who will say they agree with Rdr Iakovos' post........but it's something else when you get fellow believers telling you they've actually had a revelation from your posts....and that it's like they've just heard the gospel for the very first time! Well....that's exactly what happens when people hear and understand the truth....it sets them free. And again, it's nothing I take credit for, but when people hear a gospel that is free of the skewed perceptions of religion, then those words have life flowing out of them........and that ain't just me talking, that's exactly what people tell me.

Tell me, aren't these the fruits our faith is to be judged by? It's NOT a feeling friend it is spirit and truth.

Yes....and I only ever really, truly experienced and understood what was meant by "fruit" when religion came out of the picture, and the fullness of God's grace came in.

The Holy Spirits presence in my life is unbelievable and I'd be willing to bet ticker would say the same.

You don't even know...

 

[ticker]

I might hazard that by "people get turned off" you mean that YOU get turned off.

That's ok, I get turned off also when I read "just relax and trust Jesus" when the scriptures tell us "study to show yourself approved" and "work out your salvation with fear and trembling."
Yes, I suppose that what I have said does turn some people off, being as they would like an easier sofetr gospel, kind of like spiritual aspirin.

We live in an era when people watch tv and don't read thick books. Be that as it may, Christianity is not primarily nor necessarily cerebral. Of course, if one has been gifted with intellect, one is answerable to God for what they have done with it.


I covered this in my previous post. My post was about more than intellect, it was about action. The simple understand intuitively that truth walks and nonsense talks.


I believe you were looking for the 'small o' there.


Oppression has made it clear which is the "right way:" self-sacrifice, true faith, and reverence for the scriptures- whether found in written word, icons, or living letters. Eastern Orthodox Christians have experienced oppression as a fact of life for the past 10 centuries.


Ortho= right or straight
Doxa= glory or praise.

Eastern Orthdoxy is not about theological definitions, it's about giving God glory as He deserves and as the Church understands (as the bible expresses it in totality)


Sounds like you have some misconceptions about Orthodox Christianity- perhaps even some prejudices.

The center of Eastern Orthodox Christianity has always been the simple and the pious, those who embrace the Way, not just 'the explanation.'
We do not have the dependence on preachers to spoon-feed the latest doctrine or feel good mantra that is SO prominent in 21st century American Christianity


In point of fact, Jesus is NOT all I need, I need the Father, and I need the infilling of the Holy Spirit. I need the company of innumerable angels and the spirits of righteous men made just. I need the fellowship of suffering and the prayers of the saints. I need my brethren just as they need me. So happens that all of my brethren are NOT Eastern Orthodox.

Sorry to break it to you, but your explanation of Christianity does NOT cut it. You say that Christianity is not a religion- I won't even enetr that old argument. What Christianity is not is a slacker Kingdom where we just need Jesus and to feel ok about ourselves in some post-Freudian therapeutic sense.

What I want, and pray for, is a life that is empowered by God, led by the Spirit, informed by the Fathers and Mothers of ages past and this one as well.

I want a stout Christianity that demands of me my life, not a Christianity that is attached to my life.

I'm quite certain that we have both now misrepresented what the other was saying- but I wanted to address the
objections you raised as they relate to contemporary paradigms of what Christianity in fact is all about.

If I were religious, I would agree with everything you said. However, I'm just a Christ-ian (...someone who is of Christ), and I don't pretend to think I can live the Christ-ian life...only Christ can do that. But feel free to try and fail if you want to. I, for one, will put my faith in Him to do it for me (which....is the whole point of Christianity actually).

 

[ticker]

Let's see, one the one hand we have Christians who understand their freedom in Christ, who live by the fullness of God's grace, and who, as a result, end up trusting Christ to pour out His love into the world through them in a way that ends up evangelizing to others in action more than words could ever do...........and on the other hand we have this...

Absolutely not. The bread of heaven is the Word of God. The labor of planting the Word of God in the heart requires such effect that it is called a struggle. Only a servant of Christ during his life on earth feeds on heavenly bread in the sweat of his brow by constantly struggling with the carnal mind, by canstantly laboring at the cultivation of virtues.

See the parable of the sower. Mt 13/Mk 4/Lk 8

and Paul 1st letter to the Cornishgamehens:

1Co 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: but each shall receive his own reward according to his own labor.

Neglect of bodily discipline make men like animals who give free rein and scope to their bodily passions.

Yeah....I'm sure that's the "good news" that's gonna make the secular world turn on its ear, making people say "THAT'S IT! THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR ALL MY LIFE!"

A real turn-on indeed.

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

If I were religious, I would agree with everything you said. However, I'm just a Christ-ian (...someone who is of Christ), and I don't pretend to think I can live the Christ-ian life...only Christ can do that. But feel free to try and fail if you want to. I, for one, will put my faith in Him to do it for me (which....is the whole point of Christianity actually).

He doesn't do it FOR you, He does it THROUGH you.

According to your unflattering description, Peter was "religious."
According to your unflattering description, Paul was "religious"
According to your unflattering description, James was "religious."

How can I say this?
Because I quoted each liberally in my response. And, to say the least, they "competed as athletes, buffeting (their) bodies."

Jesus told us, in many ways, to labor. You have your own cross to take up, having denied yourself.

Though your constant accusations of "religion" call into question the authenticity of my own Christianity, I wouldn't think of denying that you are a Christian. I will say, however, that what you prescribe bears litle or no resemblance to the holy scriptresw.

Please re-read the gospels and the first three chapters of Revelation- and then tell me how to chill out in Christ.
In the mean time, I'll continue to pray for the grace to follow Him as He commanded, and as the Apostles confirmed.

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

Let's see, one the one hand we have Christians who understand their freedom in Christ, who live by the fullness of God's grace, and who, as a result, end up trusting Christ to pour out His love into the world through them in a way that ends up evangelizing to others in action more than words could ever do...........and on the other hand we have this...

Nice theory. "Go in peace, be warmed."

Yeah....I'm sure that's the "good news" that's gonna make the secular world turn on its ear, making people say "THAT'S IT! THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR ALL MY LIFE!"

A real turn-on indeed.

So let's water down the gospel and tell thm what thir itching ears want to hear.
God forbid.
John chapter 6 comes to mind- when Jesus told the people what they didn't want to hear, the crowd left Him.

With all defernce to the sisters, who in most part have put us men to shame when it comes to denying themselves and following Him- I want a manly Christianity, one that demands EVERYTHING.
Love this life, lose it. Lose it, gain it.

 

[Rdr Iakovos]

As you've seen here though, there are of course religious posters (...who also believe you have to live a certain way to be a "proper" Christian) who will say they agree with Rdr Iakovos' post........but it's something else when you get fellow believers telling you they've actually had a revelation from your posts....and that it's like they've just heard the gospel for the very first time! Well....that's exactly what happens when people hear and understand the truth....it sets them free. And again, it's nothing I take credit for, but when people hear a gospel that is free of the skewed perceptions of religion, then those words have life flowing out of them........and that ain't just me talking, that's exactly what people tell me.

It interests me that those with whom you disagree are "religious."
This unfortunate rhetorical tactic blurs and obscurs the important distinctions between your view and mine.

It also explicitly and implicitly denies the agreement that we have, which is that is Christ in us that makes it happen. "Apart from Him I can do nothing."

We have never suggested that we do it on our own, but you claim that we do. On the other hand, we have never claimed that you do nothing- only that you preach do nothing.
That is the essential difference between your approach and ours:
We attack the message, comparing it with scripture.
You attack the messenger(s).

So, apart from calling people religious, what is it that you are saying? That people have freedom in Christ? We have said as much. So did Paul. "It is for freedom that Christ set us free" and "Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."

However:
You miss the purpose of that freedom.
Paul referred to himself as duolos, the bondslave of Christ.
Now what do you suppose that he meant by that?
And, do you think that being a bondslave is a popular message?

 

[Kristos]

"feel good theology"? this comment to me indicates that you aren't able to understand what he means, tickers simple yet accurate testimony is nearly identical to mine and you know since i've walked that walk over the past three years the number of people in my life i've seen come to the Lord with Him using me as a tool has been unbeleivable not to mention Him revealing Himself to me in some very profound ways...Tell me, aren't these the fruits our faith is to be judged by? It's NOT a feeling friend it is spirit and truth. The Holy Spirits presence in my life is unbelievable and I'd be willing to bet ticker would say the same.

Sorry, I didn't mean to disparage you. Are your fruits not the result of your faith in action?

 

[Kristos]

Let's see, one the one hand we have Christians who understand their freedom in Christ, who live by the fullness of God's grace, and who, as a result, end up trusting Christ to pour out His love into the world through them in a way that ends up evangelizing to others in action more than words could ever do...........and on the other hand we have this...



Yeah....I'm sure that's the "good news" that's gonna make the secular world turn on its ear, making people say "THAT'S IT! THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR ALL MY LIFE!"

A real turn-on indeed.

So your only defense is that what I have said is unpopular? That only seems to prove my point.

Is the "good news" really in need of promotional gimmicks to get people to accept it. To make it easy enough? To make feel good enough? Does christianity really need to dumbed down to make it marketable?

This world will NEVER accept it! If you change it to make them, then you have accomplished NOTHING!