Scripture alone regarding confessing sins.

[Albion]

Terry in your post below your cut and paste does NOT address one of the main points of my OP...

What are your thoughts?

Thank you for saying it!

I often feel like banging my head on the keyboard when, after one poster is asked a question, all he gives back is some cut and paste from his own church's rule book.

We are talking, presumably, to other people with brains like our own, and I for one am almost insulted when a give and take is suddenly sidetracked into a second-hand sermon on "why my church is the best" or, if you will, "I don't have an opinion on that myself, so I just agree in advance with whatever this says."

If we had asked what the RCC's official position on X is, that would be different, but that wasn't the case here.

 

[simonthezealot]

Thank you for saying it!

I often feel like banging my head on the keyboard when, after one poster is asked a question, all he gives back is some cut and paste from his own church's rule book.

We are talking, presumably, to other people with brains like our own, and I for one am almost insulted when a give and take is suddenly sidetracked into a second-hand sermon on "why my church is the best" or, if you will, "I don't have an opinion on that myself, so I just agree in advance with whatever this says."

If we had asked what the RCC's official position on X is, that would be different, but that wasn't the case here.

I'm seriously considering placing essentially every RC whom cuts and pastes on my "ignore list" so I can get simply the views of the people within the church, i've spent the better part of 4 years studying the "rabbit trails" of Rome i've read most every cut and paste defense of every questionable topic there is, for the most part I can even typically name the original author to those CnP's whether Hahn or Armstrong or Madrid or Sippo or Akin or whoever. I want to know the real feelings and thoughts behind the doctrines. Here is where I insert a special thanks to my brother and friend JacktheCatholic whom is as direct and straightforward a soul as i've met.
I'm pretty fed up with this whole community as they are me I am sure.

Then the Lord puts scripture like this in front of me and I carry on.
1 Cor 2:14
14 But[SIZE=+0] the natural[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] man[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] receiveth[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] not[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] the things[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] of the Spirit[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] of God[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]: for[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] they are[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] foolishness[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] unto him[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]: neither[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] can[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] he know[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] them, because[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] they are spiritually[/SIZE][SIZE=+0] discerned[/SIZE][SIZE=+0].[/SIZE]

 

[Albion]

I'm seriously considering placing essentially every RC whom cuts and pastes on my "ignore list" so I can get simply the views of the people within the church, i've spent the better part of 4 years studying the "rabbit trails" of Rome i've read most every cut and paste defense of every questionable topic there is, for the most part I can even typically name the original author to those CnP's whether Hahn or Armstrong or Madrid or Sippo or Akin or whoever. I want to know the real feelings and thoughts behind the doctrines. Here is where I insert a special thanks to my brother and friend JacktheCatholic whom is as direct and straightforward a soul as i've met.

Overall, I agree. However, the one thing that I honestly feel these otherwise thoughtful folks miss is that by doing this cut and paste stuff--or answering every discussion point or question with a link to a Catholic encyclopedia, etc.--they are virtually saying that they don't understand the faith that they are here to promote.

 

[namericanboy]

Is The boycott over? Yes Jack the Catholic is one straight fwd brother...He gives real and heartfelt replies..

 

[ticker]

I've always wondered about the extra "stuff"...We come to Him with the simple child like faith..We see all these things/rules added that I didn't see in the early church..Like Peter's first street message 3'000 were added to the church in one meeting , they believed in Christ. Yet today you have to got through a program or a series of steps over time to be born anew and accepted in the church..

Are you sure you have to go through such program? Is that the gospel...or is that religion?

Thing is...you couldn't be more right, friend. Child-like faith is all you need.......trusting Him, as but a child in a stroller trusts His father, to take you safely and succesfully to wherever it is you're meant to get to....all by the power of His grace.


- "I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is no one like Me, declaring the end from the beginning and from Ancient times things which have not been done, saying, 'My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure.'"


You see....satan likes to use a lie that stems all the way from the Garden...(that we aren't presentable to God)...in order to trick Christians into thinkng they have to do all this "Christian stuff" to get right with God. And so this lie just ends up leaving religious Christians with feelings of frustration, guilt, and inadeqecy in their walk when they fail to perform (...and being human, they do) in a way their religion tells them God "expects."

The truth is...we are no longer the spirit of Adam who, along with Eve, felt he needed to cover himself with leaves in the Garden. That is a notion that might linger in our flesh, but it is not the truth about who we now ARE (...which is what the devil tries to keep Christians from understanding). The TRUTH......the GOOD NEWS......what now sets Christians FREE.....is that we have been REBORN in Christ. We have His righteous spirit now, and thus are just as presentable to God as He himself is. WE ARE SAVED (...we don't "save" ourselves)...that's what Jesus is here for.


So rest assured friend that you already have everything you need.

Your righteousness...

-"This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe."

-"...and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness."


Your sanctification...

-“By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

- "To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours”


And of course, your completeness...

- "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority"

- "I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus."


...that's the "good news".


Thing is though...when you fall for the lie, you develop a legalistic mindset that makes you take the gospel out of context, and just see something like this...

-“Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters...will inherit the kingdom of God."

...which will leave you running to religion to ensure you're right with God. But when you understand it with what follows...

"...Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.”

...then you can see the "good news".


Blessings.

 

[Albion]

Right. I was kinda thinking the same thing.

While there are churches which make new members jump through a lot of hoops to join, many many do not demand much more than that you make a simple confession of faith in Christ.

Perhaps our friend was thinking of some particular denomination.

 

[ticker]

Right.

Thanks...I try.

 

[jckstraw72]

or answering every discussion point or question with a link to a Catholic encyclopedia, etc.--they are virtually saying that they don't understand the faith that they are here to promote.

or they are being true Catholics and accepting the teachings of their Church ...

 

[simonthezealot]

or they are being true Catholics and accepting the teachings of their Church ...

Then they may as well post newadvent for us and leave.

 

[jckstraw72]

Then they may as well post newadvent for us and leave.

well thats what you're complaining about.

ya'll often post Scripture rather than your own thoughts, they post their accepted understanding of Scripture -- whats the difference?

 

[Albion]

well thats what you're complaining about.

ya'll often post Scripture rather than your own thoughts, they post their accepted understanding of Scripture -- whats the difference?

Well, most often Scripture is posted, no matter by whom, along with thoughts about it. Usually it's only a couple of verses. You are never asked to read Paul's Epistle to Titus, are you, yet you can see that cut and pastes longer than that book of the Bible are delivered to us in place of discussion.

And as for their understanding of Scripture, what we were talking about was posting some lengthy cut and paste without any personal comments other than, "read this."

I don't think anyone objects to the citing of some sources along with one's own thinking, as evidence of the correctness of what that person is arguing. We're talking about throwing down the kitchen sink without explanation, and just some publication put together by that person's own church at that.

Whatever one says about any poster's right to do this, it doesn't help any discussion. It is a discussion-killer, in fact.

 

[Kristos]

With the Catholics boycotting I'll take this opportunity to post this to hear from different protestant sect.

I've often been troubled by the weight put upon human beings (catholic priests) of listening to and dealing with thousands of peoples sins I personally don't think it is right to put this on another human.

I am interested in 1 thing only, "what saith scripture about confession to others"

Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

This is what we are supposed to do. During the sacrement of Confession in the Orthodox Church, the priest represents the "other". He is a witness, a friend, a guide, an elder. Apart from the Confession - we also have the service of forgiveness, which is coming up next week, where everyone goes to everyone, prostrates and asks for forgiveness. The confession part is silent or spoken softly since that could get ugly.

 

[simonthezealot]

Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

This is what we are supposed to do. During the sacrement of Confession in the Orthodox Church, the priest represents the "other". He is a witness, a friend, a guide, an elder. Apart from the Confession - we also have the service of forgiveness, which is coming up next week, where everyone goes to everyone, prostrates and asks for forgiveness. The confession part is silent or spoken softly since that could get ugly.

Hi Kristos friend,
Thanks for the insight...Question, does the father hear all the parishioners confessions, is he laden with that burden?

 

[mont974x4]

Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

This is what we are supposed to do. During the sacrement of Confession in the Orthodox Church, the priest represents the "other". He is a witness, a friend, a guide, an elder. Apart from the Confession - we also have the service of forgiveness, which is coming up next week, where everyone goes to everyone, prostrates and asks for forgiveness. The confession part is silent or spoken softly since that could get ugly.

That service of forgiveness would be a neat thing to experience. I know I have experienced a great feeling of freedom when confiding in my bride some sin so we could face the issues together.


I only hope that the truth is being taught that such things are not required. Meaning, we need no special ceremony or earthly priest for repentence and confession.

 

[Albion]

I only hope that the truth is being taught that such things are not required. Meaning, we need no special ceremony or earthly priest for repentence and confession.

Actually...I don't know that ANY of the leading churches, whether Catholic or Protestant, do contend that private or sacramental, formal confession is required. A direct act of repentence to God is always valid.

 

[simonthezealot]

On whether it's asking to much for one person to day after day week after week month after month year after year sit and listen to the failing fleshly filthy ways of us sinners?

I'd love to hear a mental health professionals POV on this as well.

 

[Albion]

On whether it's asking to much for one person to day after day week after week month after month year after year sit and listen to the failing fleshly filthy ways of us sinners?

I'd love to hear a mental health professionals POV on this as well.

Apparently it is possible to do this week after week and not lose your mind. But remember, most of the confessions are in the nature of "Bless me Father, I had impure thoughts" (or got mad at my neighbor, or gossiped), etc.

Little of it is very exciting or what I'd call really about "fleshy, filthy ways."

 

[mont974x4]

Actually...I don't know that ANY of the leading churches, whether Catholic or Protestant, do contend that private or sacramental, formal confession is required. A direct act of repentence to God is always valid.

Do catholics not go to an earthly priest for absolution of sins? That's what all the former catholics I know tell me...even those that were altar boys and clergy.

 

[FullyMT]

On whether it's asking to much for one person to day after day week after week month after month year after year sit and listen to the failing fleshly filthy ways of us sinners?

I'd love to hear a mental health professionals POV on this as well.

Most priests, generally, do their best to forget whatever it is they have heard. God has forgiven and forgotten, and so should they (or so many a priest has said to me).
They are vessels of sharing God's forgiveness. It is very beneficial as a person confessing to verbally share sins with another person as well as hear that those sins are forgiven. The priest acts as a member of the whole body of Christ which we have seperated ourselves from by sinning. He then welcomes us back on behalf of the whole Church as he shares God's absolution with us.

I hope that helped some.
I'm done now...I need to write a paper before a meeting I have tonight...

 

[ScottBot]

The Christians at One Bread One Body have compiled a composite response to the issue of auricular confession. You are invited to view it here: http://christianforums.com/t6935127

God Bless.