Scotland Apologizes for Executing Witches

Archivist · Mar 9, 2022

myst33 said:
Because its like me apologizing for some medieval guy doing something to some medieval woman.

It has nothing to do with me. We live in a culture of empty apologies, artificial gestures and being guilty of everything.

And, it is not a personal apology. The apology is on behalf of the institution that committed the wrongs.

zippy2006 · Mar 9, 2022

bèlla said:
The remorse is genuine. The prophets did the same. They weren’t guilty of the crimes that angered the Lord. But they had His ear. There’s a spiritual principle involved but its off-topic.

I would say that genuine sorrow can lead one to petition the Lord on behalf of another's plight. I can pray to the Lord out of sorrow for the Ukrainian people, even though I am not a Russian invader. Sometimes the prophets are doing this.

Another case might exist where there is identification with the guilty party and true remorse for sins that you are only indirectly involved in. And yes, this might include a spiritual principle that connects you with the wrongdoer. Sometimes the prophets are doing this.

Anyway, I think we are on the same page. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't oversimplifying it.

zippy2006 · Mar 9, 2022

Archivist said:
And we are talking about an institutional apology here. The Minister is not personally apologizing for actions by him or by his ancestors.

Well I never claimed that the apology is incoherent. That would depend on whether the institution is legitimately continuous with the transgressing institution and whether the person apologizing is a legitimate representative.

I think post #13 is important (and my first post, #2). It is possible for an institution to offer an apology. It remains to be seen whether, in a given case, it is prudent, helpful, or virtuous. Apologizing for the mistakes of others always carries with it the possible motive of pride, of putting ourselves in a place of honor and superiority. In our age of finger pointing, demanded apologies, and virtue signaling, apologies on behalf of others are not terribly effective.

bèlla · Mar 9, 2022

zippy2006 said:
Anyway, I think we are on the same page. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't oversimplifying it.

Yes we are. Thank you for expounding.

Archivist · Mar 9, 2022

zippy2006 said:
Well I never claimed that the apology is incoherent. That would depend on whether the institution is legitimately continuous with the transgressing institution and whether the person apologizing is a legitimate representative.

If you know British history, you know that the institution is continuous with the transgressing institution, and the First Minister is the person to issue the apology.

I think post #13 is important (and my first post, #2). It is possible for an institution to offer an apology. It remains to be seen whether, in a given case, it is prudent, helpful, or virtuous. Apologizing for the mistakes of others always carries with it the possible motive of pride, of putting ourselves in a place of honor and superiority. In our age of finger pointing, demanded apologies, and virtue signaling, apologies on behalf of others are not terribly effective.

Did you read the article? I saw no claims of honor or superiority.

zippy2006 · Mar 9, 2022

Archivist said:
Did you read the article? I saw no claims of honor or superiority.

The apology and article do not exist in a vacuum. For example:

Scapegoating and bullying rife in Scotland’s NHS

So again, I wonder if it would be better to focus on the serious scapegoating problems that are happening today rather than those that happened 500 years ago.

Peace,
Zip

Archivist · Mar 9, 2022

zippy2006 said:
The apology and article do not exist in a vacuum. For example:

Scapegoating and bullying rife in Scotland’s NHS

So again, I wonder if it would be better to focus on the serious scapegoating problems that are happening today rather than those that happened 500 years ago.

Peace,
Zip

You don’t think they can deal with both? Massachusetts apologized for its witchcraft trials as did Virginia. I don’t think that kept either Commonwealth from dealing with current problems.

Hazelelponi · Mar 9, 2022

bèlla said:
I’ve apologized to the Lord for lots of things I had no part in. The concept isn’t bothersome. Maybe that’s me. Who knows.

Maybe. I've never apologized to God for wrongs I didn't do.

Wrongs I likely would have done, yes I have - that includes nailing Jesus to the cross, because I figure the level of my disbelief in my unsaved state was just that bad.

But beyond that no. I don't feel guilt for things other people do or have done, unless I supported the action and it was the wrong stance to take.

When I feel bad for the state of things, I simply pray for God's Hand to move upon people, in accordance with His will. Right now, for instance, I'm terribly sad for everyone from the U.S., to the E.U, to the Ukraine and Russia, to the Middle Eastern nations this is about to seriously affect (famine).

But I don't apologize because my own conscious is clear in the matter.

bèlla · Mar 9, 2022

Hazelelponi said:
But I don't apologize because my own conscious is clear in the matter.

It isn’t a question of conscience. ‘It wasn’t me’ has two angles. Touting one while ignoring the other is the problem.

I could say the same about someone’s pain or hardship. It’s not my fault. I wasn’t involved. Why do I have to lend a hand? It isn’t my mess.

That’s the downside of that stance. Oftentimes you need people to step into things that isn’t their concern or provide support for problems they didn’t create.

In most circumstances the perpetrator isn’t part of the solution. The cleanup crew is blameless. If we’re all focusing on what we’re responsible for many fall between the cracks.

It doesn’t matter when it happened. God loves them no less than you and I. Their lives are valuable.

Chesterton · Mar 9, 2022

Several of my Scottish ancestors were turned into frogs. I'm still waiting for an apology from the witches.

bekkilyn · Mar 9, 2022

Chesterton said:
Several of my Scottish ancestors were turned into frogs. I'm still waiting for an apology from the witches.

Maybe the Scottish government will let you into the séance chamber for the next batch of witches they summon in for the apology.

Archivist · Mar 9, 2022

Chesterton said:
Several of my Scottish ancestors were turned into frogs. I'm still waiting for an apology from the witches.

Funny, but most of those executed did not practice witchcraft. They tended to be herbalists and midwives.

Hazelelponi · Mar 10, 2022

bèlla said:
I could say the same about someone’s pain or hardship. It’s not my fault. I wasn’t involved. Why do I have to lend a hand? It isn’t my mess.

Lending a hand to someone in need has nothing to do with apologizing... You don't have to apologize for things you weren't responsible for to help others...

We talking only about apologizing in this thread... Not whether or not we would help those in need.

bekkilyn · Mar 10, 2022

I believe there is a difference between apologizing for someone else, which I don't think is very effective or particularly meaningful, and interceding on their behalf in some way as a mediator or go between, similar to how Abraham interceded on behalf of Sodom and Gomorrah, or Moses on behalf of the Israelites.

Institutional apologies long long after the fact seem inconsequential since none of the affected parties are even remotely still alive,. I find it more meaningful to simply acknowledge the wrongdoing that was done in the past and then move forward in a more beneficial manner.

What aggravates me the most is when an institution continuously denies that something ever happened when everybody knows that it did.

iarwain · Mar 11, 2022

This apology is long overdue.
Scotland is systemically anti-witch.

East of Eden · Mar 11, 2022

I would rather they apologize for the killing of unborn children TODAY.

Scotland Apologizes for Executing Witches

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