Scientists refute evolution, Non-creationist scientists

[Mechanical Bliss]

Evolution cannot and never will be proven,

This is correct, though likely not in the way you intended. Evolution cannot and never will be proven in the same way that no other scientific theory can ever be proved.

it is simply humans trying their hardest to discredit Gods word,

This is false. Darwin was a Christian when he published "Origin of Species..." for example. Science isn't in the business of discrediting "God's word" nor do scientists accept evolutionary biology for that reason; they do it because of the evidence. Note that many scientists are Christians, and they also accept evolution.

Instead of looking for humans to awnser your questions... LOOK AND READ THE BIBLE... the awnsers are already their. The WHOLE truth and nothing but the truth,

JEff

That they are "the answers" is an empty assertion on your part. And if "the answers" are what you define them to be, namely young earth creationism, then those answers are wrong, plain and simple.

You are incorrectly assuming that evolution equals atheism and that your interpretation of the Bible is infallible.

You have created the false dichotomy of Christianity=YEC versus science=atheism. Additionally, if you persue that line of thinking, you have brought your religion into the realm of the falsifiable and it has been disproved. That should be very telling.


In closing, it is highly recommended that you learn from these mistakes and read people's replies pointing them out so that you do not make them in the future if you continue to post here and want to be taken seriously (and that includes bringing up Hovind's bogus offer after it has already been dealt with).

 

[Carmack]

Is the devil confusing theists who believe evolution?

 

[wardpossy]

Mechanical Bliss vbmenu_register("postmenu_11158664", true); , Thank you for your response, It has been one of the only Civil responses I have received, I am truly interested in this discussion but not with all the neg. responses, I mean these people were not born educated they had to learn and I would hope it wasnt with so much hate in their responses

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

I will be the FIRST TO ADMIT that I do not study evolution or science, It will just cause more confusion and I know the devil will love anything a persaon does to cause doubt that way he can take you for his own. This life is short but I KNOW ONE THING FOR SURE, I know where Im going and Im sure I will enjoy it alot more that non believers for you, and yes I do mean YOU!!

So basically, ignorance, especially of the willful variety, is bliss.

I just don't understand the anti-intellectualism and anti-education of creationists, but I guess that's the only thing that keeps creationism intact in the first place.

I also don't understand why people who admit they know NOTHING about what they're talking about turn around and make posts acting like their claims have overturned modern biology and geology from a position of total ignorance.

This idea of ignorance overturning science is absurd and brings us back to a question Arikay and notto posed a while ago on this forum that I don't recall any creationists answering: if ignorance can overturn science so easily then why don't scientists realize this? Are scientists all liars engaged in a vast conspiracy or just incredibly stupid despite their hands-on work in their fields and extensive educations? It doesn't add up.

 

[Arikay]

I think this post speaks for itself.

"I don't know what I'm talking about but I am right no matter what because the devil is trying to confuse everyone else, but not me, and I'm going to heaven so Na na na na na na."

I should point out that No you don't know where you are going unless you are God. Are you God?


Quite frankly it's this attitude that keeps me away from christians, and it is also what is going to keep me away from the forum. There is no point in trying to have an intelectual debate about science if no one from the opposite side wants to join you.

I will be the FIRST TO ADMIT that I do not study evolution or science, It will just cause more confusion and I know the devil will love anything a persaon does to cause doubt that way he can take you for his own. This life is short but I KNOW ONE THING FOR SURE, I know where Im going and Im sure I will enjoy it alot more that non believers for you, and yes I do mean YOU!!

 

[Split Rock]

"The hold of the evolutionary paradigm [theoretical system] is so powerful that an idea which is more like a principle of medieval astrology than a serious twentieth century scientific theory has become a reality for evolutionary biologists."—*Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1985), p. 306 [Australian molecular biologist].


"The over-riding supremacy of the myth has created a widespread illusion that the theory of evolution was all but proved one hundred years ago and that all subsequent biological research—paleontological, zoological, and in the newer branches of genetics and molecular biology—has provided ever-increasing evidence for Darwinian ideas."—*Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1985), p. 327.


"Throughout the past century there has always existed a significant minority of first-rate biologists who have never been able to bring themselves to accept the validity of Darwinian claims. In fact, the number of biologists who have expressed some degree of disillusionment is practically endless."—*Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1986), p. 327.

"Ultimately the Darwinian theory of evolution is no more nor less than the great cosmogenic myth of the twentieth century . . the origin of life and of new beings on earth is still largely as enigmatic as when Darwin set sail on the [ship] Beagle."—*Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1986), p. 358.


"The fact is that the evidence was so patchy one hundred years ago that even Darwin himself had increasing doubts as to the validity of his views, and the only aspect of his theory which has received any support over the past century is where it applies to microevolutionary phenomena. His general theory, that all life on earth had originated and evolved by a gradual successive accumulation of fortuitous mutations, is still, as it was in Darwin's time, a highly speculative hypothesis entirely without direct factual support and very far from that self-evident axiom some of its more aggressive advocates would have us believe."—*Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1986), p. 77.

Micheal Denton is an ID advocate and therefore a creationist.

"The irony is devastating. The main purpose of Darwinism was to drive every last trace of an incredible God from biology. But the theory replaces God with an even more incredible deity—omnipotent chance."—*T. Rosazak, Unfinished Animal (1975), pp. 101-102.

The objections posed by Rosazak are religious in nature.

"I can envision observations and experiments that would disprove any evolutionary theory I know."—*Stephen Jay Gould, "Evolution as Fact and Theory," Discover 2(5):34-37 (1981).

Here Gould explains that evolutionary theory is potentially falsifiable.. isn't this opposite to what Creationists claim?

Quote-mining is inherently deceitful. Doesn't the bible have some things to say about deceit? Why is it that so many creationists embrace such tactics?

 

[Tomk80]

I will be the FIRST TO ADMIT that I do not study evolution or science, It will just cause more confusion and I know the devil will love anything a persaon does to cause doubt that way he can take you for his own. This life is short but I KNOW ONE THING FOR SURE, I know where Im going and Im sure I will enjoy it alot more that non believers for you, and yes I do mean YOU!!

whoooo, scary. But seriously. You do not study evolution, so you admit you have no idea what you are talking about. Now, you keep telling me that evolution means that there is no God (which I already know to be false, but let's pretend I believe you). Then, you tell me evolution is not true, but you do so by giving me all kinds of information that I know is wrong. Can you imagine what I think in that case. I'll take it step by step, reasoning backwards.
If what you tell me is true, evolution is false and christianity is true.
I know that what you tell me is false.
So evolution is probably still true, because if you had any real arguments you would have presented that.
So evolution is true, meaning christianity is false.

Because of you I have to conclude that christianity is false. Not anyone else, but because of you. Don't you think that, if you want to have some effect, you'll have to know what you are talking about? You'll have to study it? Don't you think that, if you don't want to study evolution, you might not be the right person to argue against it? Don't you think it would be might to witness on arguments which you fully understand? Just my 0.02 Eurocents.

 

[Arikay]

Let's not forget that Denton is an evolutionist now (I believe it is Denton) and has refuted his old book. Thus some dishonest creationist groups have connected "evolutionist" and his old book together and claimed that the book came from an evolutionist.

 

[Split Rock]

I will be the FIRST TO ADMIT that I do not study evolution or science, It will just cause more confusion and I know the devil will love anything a persaon does to cause doubt that way he can take you for his own.

I guess this falls under the umbrella of "dangerous knowledge." Your faith must be pretty weak if you are truly afraid of learning what something is all about before you attack it as wrong.

This life is short but I KNOW ONE THING FOR SURE, I know where Im going and Im sure I will enjoy it alot more that non believers for you, and yes I do mean YOU!!

And once again we see the Heavy Stick of Creationism! In the end, it is their only real argument.

 

[wardpossy]

My point was this.. If the Bible says it is so than it is, But what I am hearing hear goes againist the bible, therefore I have to conclude it is false teaching, Everyone Cool their Jets.... Im TRYING TO LEARN something here, not learn to hate evenmore!!!
GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

 

[Event Horizon]

Im TRYING TO LEARN something here

When learning, try to keep an open mind. If something you learn contradicts prior prejudices, don't immeadiately proclaim it's false.

 

[Arikay]

At one point people said the bible said the earth was the center of the universe. And I have yet to hear someone use only literal biblical verses to prove them wrong.

Does that mean the earth is the center of the universe and everything else revolves around it?

 

[wardpossy]

Event Horizon vbmenu_register("postmenu_11159078", true); , Thank you for your last post, I am REALLY trying to learn something here, I am not young and I grew up in ...lets say....in times where eveything was cut and dry, Well its not now and I am kinda confused and looking for people who can reply with Smart awnsers, not hyped up junk, I cant learn Anything from those people

 

[Randall McNally]

I am truly interested in this discussion but not with all the neg. responses,

I don't believe you. No one who is "truly interested in discussion" barges into a forum predicated on science, spewing pseudo-authoritative tripe, only to later proclaim you know virtually nothing about the subjects you are attacking.

I mean these people were not born educated they had to learn and I would hope it wasnt with so much hate in their responses

I haven't seen anything resembling "hate" in any response you have received thus far. Do you have any examples?

What I am curious about is what you thought would happen after an OP that consists of nothing but a cut-paste from a creationist-propaganda website - sound bites, no less - especially when you so clearly know almost nothing about the individuals whom you claim "refute evolution."

You have been called out on the Futuyama quote several times already, yet you haven't even given it a handwave. What are we supposed to think about your honesty?

 

[Loudmouth]

My point was this.. If the Bible says it is so than it is, But what I am hearing hear goes againist the bible, therefore I have to conclude it is false teaching,

Many claimed the same about the Earth orbiting the Sun. They asked "How can the earth be going around the Sun if Joshua asked God to stop the Sun? Surely this crazy idea being put forth by Copernicus and his bulldog Galileo has to be false. Why do we even need to look at the evidence?"

Your approach has been shown to fail in the past. Have a gander at my signature at the bottom.

 

[wardpossy]

I will not try to defend my self, I have told you Im trying to learn something here, If thats not good enough for YOU go to another thread and bother someone else, Its these kind of responses that make people like us just shut up and continue our thoughts about people like these, we aren't stupid people, You might like to think so but were arent.

 

[Mechanical Bliss]

My point was this.. If the Bible says it is so than it is,

That is just an unsupported opinion. By no means is that automatically true.

Regardless, what if what you think the Bible says is not the correct interpretation of what it says?

But what I am hearing hear goes againist the bible,

Does it go against the Bible or does it go against the way you choose to interpret the Bible?

therefore I have to conclude it is false teaching,

And you do so for purely emotional reasons, then. It goes against what you want to be true, so you can't consider it to be anything other than false. That's not a very intellectually honest way of approaching the issue.

And again, the majority of Christians disagree with how you interpret the Bible and actually accept the conclusions of science like an old earth and evolutionary biology. Apparently they don't think any of this goes against the Bible. How do you know if you're right and they're wrong?

And again...well, again...if ideas like an old earth and evolution go against the Bible, then the Bible has been disproved. That is the dichotomy you set up as I explained in my previous reply to you.

Everyone Cool their Jets.... Im TRYING TO LEARN something here, not learn to hate evenmore!!!

If you are trying to learn, I don't think you should be posting something like this: "I do not study evolution or science, It will just cause more confusion". It basically contradicts your claim that you are willing to learn.

If you are willing to learn, that's good and you'll learn a lot here, and I suggest that you look at some of the previous threads on this forum as well because many issues have been dealt with numerous times here. Then ask questions.

But simply copying and pasting things from Kent Hovind just doesn't give the impression that you are here to learn or that you have been trying to understand the basics of the issues in this discussion. Just FYI.

 

[Phred]

I will not try to defend my self, I have told you Im trying to learn something here, If thats not good enough for YOU go to another thread and bother someone else, Its these kind of responses that make people like us just shut up and continue our thoughts about people like these, we aren't stupid people, You might like to think so but were arent.

You can certainly understand how, when confronted with blatant quote mining and idea theft, I might misunderstand your attempt to learn and confuse it with an attempt to bully. If I were to wander into the apologetics forum and bombard it with quote-mined piles of "the bible is a fairy tale" how would you react?

If you truly wish to learn, ask a question, don't offer up statements that you yourself are ignorant of.

So... you say you wish to learn, I've seen this forum teach. Please, ask a question.

.​

 

[Humanista]

My point was this.. If the Bible says it is so than it is, But what I am hearing hear goes againist the bible, therefore I have to conclude it is false teaching, Everyone Cool their Jets.... Im TRYING TO LEARN something here, not learn to hate evenmore!!!
GEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Just so I understand your position....

Anything that goes against your interpretation of the Bible MUST be false teaching. Yet you want to learn this false teaching. Why? Just to argue against it?

I applaud anyone who wants to learn. But if you feel you are already in possession of the Absolute Truth, then why do you want to learn false things?

 

[Humanista]

This idea of ignorance overturning science is absurd and brings us back to a question Arikay and notto posed a while ago on this forum that I don't recall any creationists answering: if ignorance can overturn science so easily then why don't scientists realize this? Are scientists all liars engaged in a vast conspiracy or just incredibly stupid despite their hands-on work in their fields and extensive educations? It doesn't add up.

I have never heard a good answer from creationists on this.

Why is it that highly educated scientists who have spent thier lives researching and doing field work on evolution and biology fail to recognize simple things that come easily to those with what appears to be no more than an 8th grade education in science and who don't even understand the principles of evolution?