Scientific evidence FOR or AGAINST the existence of god.

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nonbeliever314

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The argument for or against the existence of god in the philosophy section wasn't good enough for me. No philosophical arguments please. Any claims please back them up with your own work, and/or peer reviewed scientific papers. Basically make a claim, and give your supporting evidence. I'm tired so I'll get started tomorrow. Anyone who wants to post first to start this off, your more than welcome to it.

I will present evidence that I think shows that the existence of a god is highly unlikely.
 
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Davian

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popcorn.gif


Popcorn, anyone?
 
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nonbeliever314

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Just curious, would you describe yourself as an atheist < meaning you don't believe there is a god ... or agnostic < meaning your not sure there is a god.

I find it extremely unlikely there is a god. Is there a possibility there is a god? Yes. How likely do I think that is? As probable as a tooth fairy. How likely do I think there is a god of either Christianity, Islam, or Judaism? ZERO.
 
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nonbeliever314

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Anyway, for my argument(s). I guess the best way to start this off is to virtually debate William Lane Craig. So I'm going to go through all of his papers, and refute as much as I can. I will cite scientific papers, do my own work, of which I'll upload, and be very diligent in making sure that I quote and cite other peoples work to the highest level of accuracy. This should be fun, and take a long time...
 
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ClothedInGrace

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Oh look at you, gonna disprove God with your "science".

For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” (‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1‬:‭18-19‬ NIV)

There is no argument to be had. Those in darkness will never see the light. Keep grasping at all the "evidence" you think is reasonable, and lay it here on this thread against God. I'll only pray if you are one of God's that he would save you from this foolishness. If not, your fate is the same with the rest of the world.
 
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ClothedInGrace

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It is "science" that gave you the computer you're using to write in this thread.
It was actually God who gave man the ability to reason and design technology. He also created all the materials neccessary to create the components of a computer. Yet here you are using the life he gave you to reason against him and design a mental stronghold to make you feel justified.

 
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nonbeliever314

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It was actually God who gave man the ability to reason and design technology. He also created all the materials neccessary to create the components of a computer. Yet here you are using the life he gave you to reason against him and design a mental stronghold to make you feel justified.

I just want to know the truth. If through science, that leads to a god? Fine by me. If it doesn't? Fine by me.
 
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eclipsenow

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1. Can you empirically prove that empirical proof is the only proof? Without using philosophy? :flushed:

2. Can you please justify why you're asking us to prove a circle has 4 corners; sorry, a square has 3 curves; sorry a contradiction in terms? You want us to scientifically (empirically) prove the existence of God. By definition God is supernatural: above and beyond the material universe that science operates in. It's a bit of a silly request. There is no proof of something outside the arena of that proof. Mathematically prove, with a protractor and calculator, that you like roses more than petunias?

You cannot put God in a test tube. He is supernatural, the Creator of this material universe, the source of its existence. Yet you want us to prove He exists empirically, by analysing the stuff inside the material universe He is above/beyond/superior to? (Yet still intimately caring for, maintaining each quark and neutrino nanosecond by nanosecond). Why not just ask us to build a quantum computer using only Shakespeare?

3. If science were all we had to go buy, I would still want to know why there is something and not just nothing

4. Don't give me strange quantum particles popping into and out of existence in the quantum foam as the ultimate origin of everything, of something from nothing, the quantum foam is something

5. To be consistent, please scientifically prove why there is something, and not nothing: what's the actual origin of everything, and how did it come from nothing?

6. Asking this question is not asking what is south of the south pole: that's just a semantic game to avoid the question

7. But fortunately science is not the only discipline that we have to go buy. There is this thing called philosophy, with some of the presuppositions necessary for us to trust the empirical method.

8. There is also history with its respect of source documents

9. Like the eyewitness accounts of the original friends of this guy who fulfilled hundreds and hundreds of years of prophecy, said he was God, said we were in serious trouble for rebelling from Him/God the Father, and yet said He would die for us and rise again. 11 of the 12 most famous eyewitnesses were executed for stating that they had seen him rise again. Not for saying they believed him. Not for saying he had this really cool dream, or vision for the world, or Marxist platform that would usher in a Materialist Workers paradise. No, they were executed because they would not stop saying they had seen Jesus rise from death.

10. That makes the bible unique over other ancient religions, many of which read like mythologies, or others that read like the ravings of someone who had too much cheese before bed. (Trust me, I once ate way too much pizza before bed and know how funky cheese-induced nightmares can be!) Rather than ancient source documents about one dude's dreams (like Islam), these are ancient source documents that show a progression through a thousand years of history towards the central point of history: the death and resurrection of the God man, from multiple eyewitness accounts.

11. These source documents also cover things like why there is something and not nothing! Happy thinking! I wish you well.
 
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Gracchus

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Can someone scientifically prove to me that the OP is serious?
Nothing can be scientifically proven to a person who has learned to be religious, unless it agrees with the god they have constructed in their head.


:oldthumbsup:
 
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durangodawood

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It was actually God who gave man the ability to reason and design technology. He also created all the materials neccessary to create the components of a computer.
Right or wrong, all that is a matter of faith, and you can assert it, but you cannot show it.

Given humans proven tendency to invent myths, stories, gods.... you ought to understand the reluctance to simply accept assertions of this sort.
 
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Oafman

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Mathematically prove, with a protractor and calculator, that you like roses more than petunias?
That's not a great example for you to use. Such things can of course be measured empirically (dopamine levels, degree of pleasure centre stimulus etc)

You cannot put God in a test tube. He is supernatural, the Creator of this material universe, the source of its existence. Yet you want us to prove He exists empirically, by analysing the stuff inside the material universe He is above/beyond/superior to? (Yet still intimately caring for, maintaining each quark and neutrino nanosecond by nanosecond). Why not just ask us to build a quantum computer using only Shakespeare?
I don't believe there is anything beyond our material universe. I see no reason why there should be. So to convince me that something might reside there, you would first have to show me that 'there' even exists. Asserting that we can't measure something because it is unmeasurable simply leads me to think that it probably doesn't exist

3. If science were all we had to go buy, I would still want to know why there is something and not just nothing

4. Don't give me strange quantum particles popping into and out of existence in the quantum foam as the ultimate origin of everything, of something from nothing, the quantum foam is something

5. To be consistent, please scientifically prove why there is something, and not nothing: what's the actual origin of everything, and how did it come from nothing?

11. These source documents also cover things like why there is something and not nothing! Happy thinking! I wish you well.
Nobody knows why there is something. Some choose to guess, but nobody knows. But even those whose guess is religion do not even try to answer this question, they simply beg the question. They say that the universe exists because of God, but never seek to explain why God exists. Simply stating 'God is eternal' is not even at attempt to answer the question, it's an attempt to avoid it.

9. Like the eyewitness accounts of the original friends of this guy who fulfilled hundreds and hundreds of years of prophecy, said he was God, said we were in serious trouble for rebelling from Him/God the Father, and yet said He would die for us and rise again. 11 of the 12 most famous eyewitnesses were executed for stating that they had seen him rise again. Not for saying they believed him. Not for saying he had this really cool dream, or vision for the world, or Marxist platform that would usher in a Materialist Workers paradise. No, they were executed because they would not stop saying they had seen Jesus rise from death.
People kill themselves, or allow themselves to be killed, for their beliefs every day. From Waco to Raqqa to Jonestown. This just shows how strongly they held those beliefs, and does not show that their beliefs were correct.

10. That makes the bible unique over other ancient religions, many of which read like mythologies, or others that read like the ravings of someone who had too much cheese before bed. (Trust me, I once ate way too much pizza before bed and know how funky cheese-induced nightmares can be!) Rather than ancient source documents about one dude's dreams (like Islam), these are ancient source documents that show a progression through a thousand years of history towards the central point of history: the death and resurrection of the God man, from multiple eyewitness accounts.
Could the 'prophecies' which were not fulfilled simply have been forgotten, or deliberately ommited? Could the story - or the prophecies - have been embellished over the centuries to seem more like it had fulfilled them? I think you're displaying confirmation bias.
 
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theFijian

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I just want to know the truth. If through science, that leads to a god? Fine by me. If it doesn't? Fine by me.
Truth is, you can't weigh a brick with a thermometer
 
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Oafman

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Truth is, you can't weigh a brick with a thermometer
But you can weigh a brick with scales. I don't think it supports the argument that 'God can't be measured' by making a comprison with something which can be measured.
 
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