Science vs. Evolution

[Cassiterides]

The bit in bold is bad science for several reasons. First, it assumes that the written record is the only authority worthy for consideration. What about other kinds of records that pre-date the written word? Like the fossil record, rock strata and the genomics/proteomics data? Are you saying that we can't infer anything about the world unless it was written in the narrow time span during which human beings could write? Second, we have to remember that 'written history' is always written according to the interpretations of the author. Are you suggesting that we rely on the honesty of biased human beings whose interpretations about the world are bound up in their own views of it?

Your starting at the assumption that fossils etc predate writing.

Using your logic then, we cannot know that Noah's flood was 'world-wide' as Noah claimed. For Noah to know that he would have to have observed the whole world as having been flooded. Just because some biased human being 'documented' a huge flood that, to him, seemed global, does not necessarily mean that this actually happened exactly as he said it.

Noah was told by God that the flood was going to cover the entire earth.

 

[Cabal]

Your starting at the assumption that fossils etc predate writing.

No assumption about it.

Noah was told by God that the flood was going to cover the entire earth.

So he didn't observe it. So it's not history (suspect it wasn't to begin with seeing as the writer of Genesis likely wasn't contemporary with the events it describes).

 

[AV1611VET]

I would like to call your bluff here. Let's see the long list. I would also request that they received their degrees in the last hundred years or so and actually be active in archeological research.

Not all are archaeologists, but here's a list:

LIST OF SCIENTISTS WHO SUPPORT CREATIONISM

 

[Cabal]

Not all are archaeologists, but here's a list:

LIST OF SCIENTISTS WHO SUPPORT CREATIONISM

Haha, it's from rationalwiki

 

[AV1611VET]

Haha, it's from rationalwiki

Where's your list?

 

[Cabal]

Where's your list?

Your link explained why these member-waving contests are pointless anyway, c.f. Project Steve.

As for those that accept evolution, a rough approximation would be all scientists minus the ones on that list (the ones that whichever creationist group that came up with this massive logical fail didn't utterly misrepresent, anyway).

 

[Cassiterides]

These are based on scripture and nothing else. So tell me did Mizraim build the primative structures at Wadi Halfa? Or did he found the Aterian culture that used stone tools?
Aterian - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

or maybe the he was one of the Khormusan people

or was it the Halfan culture the he started?
Halfan culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

or maybe the Qadan or Sebilian culture?

or was it the Mushabian or maybe the Harifian cultures

or was it one of the lower Egypt cultures like Fiayum A or Merimde
Merimde culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

or maybe it was the Tasian
Tasian culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

or maybe he didn't come along until the Badarian culture?
Badari culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Those are all 'primitive' cultures contemporary to ancient Egypt.

Cave Dwellers (Troglodytes)

''In the sixth century BCE, the Carthaginian sailor Hanno explored the west coast of Africa and met the Lixites, who lived in a fertile part of Morocco's east coast. Here was the beginning of a trade route that led through the Sahara, and the Lixites told Hanno that beyond the mountains was the land of strange kind of people, "cave men who run faster than horses" (Periplus, 6). A century later, the Greek researcher Herodotus of Halicarnassus offers similar information: he tells that "the Garamantes use four-horse chariots, to hunt the cave-dwelling Ethiopians, who are the swiftest of foot of all men" (Histories, 4.183).

The Greek geographer Strabo offers a description of the Troglodyte life style (Geography, 16.4.7; cf. Diodorus, World History, 3.32-33). The Troglodytes (cave dwellers) were living in clans, had their wives in common, could go to war with other clans about pasturage, fighting with clubs, spears, and bows. They wore skins, lived on a diet of meat, and buried their dead under heaps of stones. In short, they were stone age pastoralists.''

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Your starting at the assumption that fossils etc predate writing.

And you're starting with the assumption that they don't. The difference is my assumption is validated by science, yours is not.

Noah was told by God that the flood was going to cover the entire earth.

Right, and how do you know that Noah ever spoke to God? Did you observe it? Once again, you are asking us to rely on the honesty of the authors and to assume, without doubt, that their interpretation of events was objectively accurate and not clouded by superstition, bias, prejudice, deceit or plain misjudgment. Do you understand how much you are asking us to assume? A lot. And why should we? Your appeal to tradition is unconcinving.

 

[Cassiterides]

I would like to call your bluff here. Let's see the long list. I would also request that they received their degrees in the last hundred years or so and actually be active in archeological research.

I don't have time to produce a long list now, but just looking at my book shelf reveals about 10, others i know from youtube videos.

YouTube - Creation in the 21st Century - More Archeology and the Bible 1 of 3 (Pagan Parallels)

 

[Nathan Poe]

I don't have time to produce a long list now, but just looking at my book shelf reveals about 10, others i know from youtube videos.

You don't bother to explain a lot of stuff on your own, do you? Why is that?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I don't have time to produce a long list now, but just looking at my book shelf reveals about 10, others i know from youtube videos.

Wow. Ten.

Besides that, argumentum ad populum.

 

[Cabal]

Wow. Ten.

Besides that, argumentum ad populum.

I do so love these particular arguments.

"Wow, even your fallacious arguments are incredibly poorly supported!"

 

[Bushido216]

I don't have time to produce a long list now, but just looking at my book shelf reveals about 10, others i know from youtube videos.

I note with some derision that you failed to list those 10 that are on your bookshelf.

 

[Split Rock]

Where's your list?

Project Steve: Now up to 1139.
Project Steve | NCSE

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

I don't have time to produce a long list now, but just looking at my book shelf reveals about 10, others i know from youtube videos.

YouTube - Creation in the 21st Century - More Archeology and the Bible 1 of 3 (Pagan Parallels)

You are going to have to come up with quite a few to impress me. The Society for American Archaelogy has more than 7.000 members. How many do you think are YECs?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Those are all 'primitive' cultures contemporary to ancient Egypt.

Do you really think that these primative cultures existed right along side of the much more advanced Egyptian culture? I can only ask you to stop and think about how absurd this claim is. We are not talking about some people living off in isolation somewhere. We are talking about cultures that were in the same area at an earlier time. There were no primative hunter gatherers living in dynastic Egypt. The usual YEC claim is that all Egyptians are descended from Mizriam. Were these primative hunter gatherers his children or his grandchildren?

Cave Dwellers (Troglodytes)

''In the sixth century BCE, the Carthaginian sailor Hanno explored the west coast of Africa and met the Lixites, who lived in a fertile part of Morocco's east coast. Here was the beginning of a trade route that led through the Sahara, and the Lixites told Hanno that beyond the mountains was the land of strange kind of people, "cave men who run faster than horses" (Periplus, 6). A century later, the Greek researcher Herodotus of Halicarnassus offers similar information: he tells that "the Garamantes use four-horse chariots, to hunt the cave-dwelling Ethiopians, who are the swiftest of foot of all men" (Histories, 4.183).

The Greek geographer Strabo offers a description of the Troglodyte life style (Geography, 16.4.7; cf. Diodorus, World History, 3.32-33). The Troglodytes (cave dwellers) were living in clans, had their wives in common, could go to war with other clans about pasturage, fighting with clubs, spears, and bows. They wore skins, lived on a diet of meat, and buried their dead under heaps of stones. In short, they were stone age pastoralists.''

If these peoples existed they lived in isolation just as the few remaining primative cultures that exist today do. They did not live right in the middle of much more advanced cultures.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Your starting at the assumption that fossils etc predate writing.
.

So if the fossil record did not predate writing how did it come about? How and when did the
Precambrian
Cambrian
Ordovician
Silurian
Devonian
Mississippian
Pennsylvanian
Permian
Triassic
Jurassic
Cretaceous
Paleocene
Eocene
Oligocene
Miocene
Pliocene
and
Pleistocene

Layers with their unique groups of fossils get laid down in your model of earth history? Were some laid down between creation and the flood? If so which? Were some laid down by the flood? If so which? Are some post-flood? If so which? Inquiring minds want to know. Standard geology has answers to these questions, starting of course with a 4.55 billion year old planet and no global flood. What is your answer? Can you come up with one that actually makes sense? I have been debating YECs for more than 20 years and haven't yet seen one that is not easily shown to be false. Perhaps you can do better.

 

[tanzanos]

I could give you a long list of YEC's with degrees in archeology, but then you would resort to what you guys normally do (your luaghable claims of ''pseudo-scholarship'' in attempt to discredit...), so it will be a waste of my time.

Don't tell me they believe in a FLAT EARTH like you do? If yes then we are dealing with cartoon physics here. I always knew that the Flintstones were going to create problems!

I have news for you cassiteredes; If you dismiss evolution then you are dismissing biology, chemistry, atomic theory, medicine, physics, etc. For all science is based on the fundamental laws of physics and the constants that allow for the physical world to exist.

So stop using the computer cassiteredes because according to you it cannot exist!

 

[AV1611VET]

Don't tell me they believe in a FLAT EARTH like you do?

Who "discovered" the flat-earth paradigm? Observers? Scientists? Both?

If yes then we are dealing with cartoon physics here. I always knew that the Flintstones were going to create problems!

Not as bad as Planet of the Apes.

I have news for you cassiteredes; If you dismiss evolution then you are dismissing biology, chemistry, atomic theory, medicine, physics, etc.

I have news for you tanzanos; If you dismiss the creation event then you are dismissing biology, chemistry, atoms, medicine, physics, etc.

For all science is based on the fundamental laws of physics and the constants that allow for the physical world to exist.

The fundamental laws of physics and the constants that allow for the physical world to exist operate by permission.

So stop using the computer cassiteredes because according to you it cannot exist!

If you stop using the air that God gave you to breathe.

 

[tanzanos]

Who "discovered" the flat-earth paradigm? Observers? Scientists? Both?

Believing in a flat earth is like believing that bugs bunny is the president of the US and he is alive.

Not as bad as Planet of the Apes.

cartoon physics is what made the US lag behind the rest of the world in primary and secondary education standards.

I have news for you tanzanos; If you dismiss the creation event then you are dismissing biology, chemistry, atoms, medicine, physics, etc.

I am not sure whether to cry or laugh at this one

The fundamental laws of physics and the constants that allow for the physical world to exist operate by permission.

How do you fashion flint stone spearheads again?

If you stop using the air that God gave you to breathe.

The big bang and subsequent creation of the elements in the cauldrons of the stars is what gave me air to breathe! Perhaps you could ask me something more realistic like When was the Bible written? Of course the answer is 399 years ago!