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That may your understanding; but why are you insisting on it here?I was not aware that there was another definition. I have always understood creation to be the creation of the universe out of nothing, the verse in Romans where God speaks not being as being. There is nothing disingenuous. You are being insulting without cause.
I am sorry you found my remarks insulting. (I think insults are intentional and there was no such intent here.)I was not aware that there was another definition. I have always understood creation to be the creation of the universe out of nothing, the verse in Romans where God speaks not being as being. There is nothing disingenuous. You are being insulting without cause.
I was referring to the comment that Dogmahunter said "the universe can't have existed for eternity" yet that does not presuppose a creator. My question, which has still not been answered even though I am the one being called disingenuous by someone who doesn't even think that calling person a liar would be insulting, is where did the universe come from. I was presented with a definition that the universe was not made out of nothing. I was told the Bible doesn't say that God calls not being as being, and when I quoted that verse there was not apology. The people on this thread are insulting and arrogant. They accuse others of being disingenuous when they are clearly avoiding answering the key question that has been asked at least 3 times.I am sorry you found my remarks insulting. (I think insults are intentional and there was no such intent here.)
Now, if I were using the etymology and lexicology of a word, especially a word in a language foreign to me, to bolster an argument then I would take considerable care to ensure I was accurate in my definition. Not to do so would be an insult to my audience. I accorded you the respect of assuming you had done the same. That left only the two options I mentioned as I had not suspected incompetence.
I hope you are not going to be insulted by that remark. We are all incompetent at vastly more things than we are competent at. I'm just pointing out an area you might wish to work on. Alternatively you could have said, "I understand that such and such is the case" rather than "such and such is the case".The former acknowledges a degree of uncertainty on your part. Ultimately though it is up to you. Good luck with which ever route you choose.
I am entirely comfortable, though regretful, in calling others liars when there is strongly suggestive evidence that they are. I would have thought with your scientific training you would realise the importance of holding people to account for the integrity of their claims. Do you not think that is important? I suspect you do and, if so, why would you object to having your own integrity tested?You seem quite comfortable calling others liars and incompetent, so why don't you help dogmaHunter out and answer the question.
No. We all want to know and right now nobody does.Am I incompetent for wanting to know where the universe came from...
Wrong. We are saying that the creation story in the Bible does not appear to specify absolutely that the universe was made out of nothing...and if you say that creation does not refer to making the universe out of nothing...
At the present time there is no explanation., then how do you explain the universe being here?
We are saying that the creation story in the Bible does not appear to specify absolutely that the universe was made out of nothing
No. We all want to know and right now nobody does.
In my experience nothing comes from nothing; and something comes from something else.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but your experience is statistically insignificant.
You are one individual out of the 5.5 billion individuals alive on the Earth. Each one has his or her own experience. One out of 5.5 billion is statistically insignificant.Proof?
You are one individual out of the 5.5 billion individuals alive on the Earth. Each one has his or her own experience. One out of 5.5 billion is statistically insignificant.
I certainly have not heard that causality had been abandoned but I have no experience of nothing, so I don't know if it even makes sense to think of something coming from nothing. Just relying on common sense derived from experience I would think it more likely that there has always been something.Has anyone's experience been different. Has Causality departed us? I would have thought that this would have been front page news. No I'm not talking about those newspapers at the grocery checkout, that say "I sheen Elvis at WulMort."
I certainly have not heard that causality had been abandoned but I have no experience of nothing, so I don't know if it even makes sense to think of something coming from nothing. Just relying on common sense derived from experience I would think it more likely that there has always been something.
No, what you see between the stars is an apparently empty space/time manifold--which is not nothing.One can't experience the emptiness of nothing in the presence of something; but one can discern that which is; from that which is not.
I can see nothing if I look between the stars. it's on the outskirts of what is.
No, what you see between the stars is an apparently empty space/time manifold--which is not nothing.
And...? It wouldn't change the fact that nothing is not even empty space.
'Empty space' is a model you had in your mind when you wrote that post .. but what about the meaning of the words in that phrase? Do you think that meaning was just floating around in that space you refer to .. sort of waiting for us to discover (or something like that)?There is nothing in empty space.
Except the space itself. Empty space is not nothing.
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