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Discussion and Debate
Discussion and Debate
Physical & Life Sciences
Science meets political spin & popular culture: who has seen "Don't look up!"?
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<blockquote data-quote="eclipsenow" data-source="post: 76460033" data-attributes="member: 274355"><p>Nah - you're repeating fallacious urban myths - I'm going to the <em><strong>credible </strong></em>sources.</p><p></p><p>I was a climate denier once. I read a denier book back in the late 1980's. But a few decades on and I decided to check the things I had been parroting. I found half the book had straw-manned climate science, and half had outright lied. If a sceptic has a genuine question they'll ask that question, and go on a hunt for the truth. What do the deniers say? What do the actual climatologists? What do you learn from forums, and from the history of climate science? Who has said what? How did the peer-reviewed climate scientists respond? Only 1% of actual, qualified climatologists are contrarians - and we know their names. To the Denier movement these people are poster boys (and one girl I think) - but their arguments have been responded to and laughed at for *decades*. People like Richard Lindzen and his denier mates.</p><p></p><p>If you are truly sceptical - and not just operating on political presuppositions - you will be open to real data and logical arguments. I submit that if you don't have actual expertise in an area - you should listen to the 99% of the people who DO. But it's more than that. I can list hundreds of outright LIES that the deniers quote - and they've been known to be wrong for decades - and yet people keep quoting them because they have confirmation bias and want to keep on living the way they always have. They don't want a big cause to get in the way of a comfortable life. They're the kind that would probably say the whole pre-American civil war slavery debate was too hard - who is to know? It's not a bad comparison. Climate change is going to hurt the poor continents of the world first. This is real. The atmospheric physics is getting clearer and clearer - and the various computer simulations of real world data are now - decades on - being shown to be fantastically accurate. And Africa and Bangladesh and other poorer places are going to be hurt so much worse than us. But eventually, if we don't take action now, it will hurt us all. Our environments, our croplands, our economies, our lifestyles, and people we love in ever increasing droughts and famines, and floods and mayhem.</p><p></p><p>PS: Meet the founder of CLINTEL and tell me if he's a climatologist. ;-) "Augustinus Johannes "Guus" Berkhout (born 1940) is a Dutch engineer who has worked for the oil and gas industry"</p><p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guus_Berkhout" target="_blank">Guus Berkhout - Wikipedia</a></p><p></p><p>Your false predictions paragraph was fantasy - just not based in reality. EG: "They said there was going to be an ice age!" People remember media hype, not the state of the actual science. The science was that the majority of papers predicted warming. Indeed, the warming power of CO2 was confirmed by Eunice Foote in 1856. Only 10% of papers in the 1970's predicted cooling, and of them, lead authors soon retracted their work.</p><p><a href="https://tinyurl.com/mz44sh3d" target="_blank">What were climate scientists predicting in the 1970s?</a></p><p></p><p>Indeed, so many predicted warming that movies in the poplar culture like Soylent Green showed global warming. The Bell Telephone company predicted catastrophic warming way back in 1958! [MEDIA=youtube]m-AXBbuDxRY[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>The models are clear. This is going to hurt Africa the most, and other low lying pacific nations are already feeling the effects of the very small amount of sea level rise - entirely as predicted (and don't bother repeating your misinformation that they were going to be WIPED OUT by now unless you have a source.) I'm urging you to investigate your political biases against this very real part of science, and to try to come to some sort of acknowledgement of reality and integrate it into your faith. This is too serious. You do not want to be on the wrong side of this.</p><p></p><p>Have you heard of Katharine Hayhoe?</p><p>She's an Evangelical, bible believing Christian - and married to a pastor. She is also an <em><strong>actual </strong></em>climatologist. Here she is responding to "Climate change can't be happening because God's in control, right?"</p><p>[MEDIA=youtube]SpjL_otLq6Y[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>Also great is this Undeceptions Apologetics podcast with my friend Dr John Dickson. (We do some work for him now and then.) He's awesome and interviews Katharine and asks some of the hard questions, like how do we REALLY know?</p><p><a href="https://undeceptions.com/podcast/good-earth/" target="_blank">Good Earth - Undeceptions</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="eclipsenow, post: 76460033, member: 274355"] Nah - you're repeating fallacious urban myths - I'm going to the [I][B]credible [/B][/I]sources. I was a climate denier once. I read a denier book back in the late 1980's. But a few decades on and I decided to check the things I had been parroting. I found half the book had straw-manned climate science, and half had outright lied. If a sceptic has a genuine question they'll ask that question, and go on a hunt for the truth. What do the deniers say? What do the actual climatologists? What do you learn from forums, and from the history of climate science? Who has said what? How did the peer-reviewed climate scientists respond? Only 1% of actual, qualified climatologists are contrarians - and we know their names. To the Denier movement these people are poster boys (and one girl I think) - but their arguments have been responded to and laughed at for *decades*. People like Richard Lindzen and his denier mates. If you are truly sceptical - and not just operating on political presuppositions - you will be open to real data and logical arguments. I submit that if you don't have actual expertise in an area - you should listen to the 99% of the people who DO. But it's more than that. I can list hundreds of outright LIES that the deniers quote - and they've been known to be wrong for decades - and yet people keep quoting them because they have confirmation bias and want to keep on living the way they always have. They don't want a big cause to get in the way of a comfortable life. They're the kind that would probably say the whole pre-American civil war slavery debate was too hard - who is to know? It's not a bad comparison. Climate change is going to hurt the poor continents of the world first. This is real. The atmospheric physics is getting clearer and clearer - and the various computer simulations of real world data are now - decades on - being shown to be fantastically accurate. And Africa and Bangladesh and other poorer places are going to be hurt so much worse than us. But eventually, if we don't take action now, it will hurt us all. Our environments, our croplands, our economies, our lifestyles, and people we love in ever increasing droughts and famines, and floods and mayhem. PS: Meet the founder of CLINTEL and tell me if he's a climatologist. ;-) "Augustinus Johannes "Guus" Berkhout (born 1940) is a Dutch engineer who has worked for the oil and gas industry" [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guus_Berkhout']Guus Berkhout - Wikipedia[/URL] Your false predictions paragraph was fantasy - just not based in reality. EG: "They said there was going to be an ice age!" People remember media hype, not the state of the actual science. The science was that the majority of papers predicted warming. Indeed, the warming power of CO2 was confirmed by Eunice Foote in 1856. Only 10% of papers in the 1970's predicted cooling, and of them, lead authors soon retracted their work. [URL='https://tinyurl.com/mz44sh3d']What were climate scientists predicting in the 1970s?[/URL] Indeed, so many predicted warming that movies in the poplar culture like Soylent Green showed global warming. The Bell Telephone company predicted catastrophic warming way back in 1958! [MEDIA=youtube]m-AXBbuDxRY[/MEDIA] The models are clear. This is going to hurt Africa the most, and other low lying pacific nations are already feeling the effects of the very small amount of sea level rise - entirely as predicted (and don't bother repeating your misinformation that they were going to be WIPED OUT by now unless you have a source.) I'm urging you to investigate your political biases against this very real part of science, and to try to come to some sort of acknowledgement of reality and integrate it into your faith. This is too serious. You do not want to be on the wrong side of this. Have you heard of Katharine Hayhoe? She's an Evangelical, bible believing Christian - and married to a pastor. She is also an [I][B]actual [/B][/I]climatologist. Here she is responding to "Climate change can't be happening because God's in control, right?" [MEDIA=youtube]SpjL_otLq6Y[/MEDIA] Also great is this Undeceptions Apologetics podcast with my friend Dr John Dickson. (We do some work for him now and then.) He's awesome and interviews Katharine and asks some of the hard questions, like how do we REALLY know? [URL='https://undeceptions.com/podcast/good-earth/']Good Earth - Undeceptions[/URL] [/QUOTE]
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