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Science Denial

PsychoSarah

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Environment is adapted to human species, not the other way around.
Then enjoy your vacation in the Arctic tundra you think was made for us to survive in. Don't bother to bring any coats, that's human technology right there, you'll survive in the nude in an environment catering to your survival. Don't bother with rations either, the native wildlife will cook itself for you as you get hungry. Because, you know, our planet is designed for us.
 
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Colter

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Here is a very enlightening video on Science Denial by Michelle Thaller, who we all know from her appearances on the History Channel and Science Channel. It's only 11:30 in length. One of the things explained in the video is her reason for leaving the History Channel.

Comments?

It hasn't helped that various proponents of man made climate change have made rediculous predictions which failed to pan out.
 
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AV1611VET

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It hasn't helped that various proponents of man made climate change have made rediculous predictions which failed to pan out.
When I was in college in 1977-1978, all I heard about ... justified scientifically ... was:
  1. pushing the button
  2. the Red Scare
  3. overpopulation
  4. a species of plant or animal being reduced, causing a domino effect of ecological disasters
  5. other things I can't remember
The Club of Rome in 1980 even warned of disasters coming, using the Pond Lily Parable

All this gave way to Harmonic Convergence, syzygies, and Y2K.

Now today it's global warming.
 
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Abraxos

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1.) Scientists predicted in 2000 that kids would grow up without snow.
2.) It’s been 10 years since scientists predicted the “end of skiing” in Scotland.
3.) The Arctic would be “ice-free” by now.
4.) Environmentalists predicted the end of spring snowfall.
5.) The end of skiing.

Read more: Top 5 failed ‘snow free’ and ‘ice free’ predictions

I also heard some prominent scientists that used to be on Obama's payroll spoke up about how fraudulent and misleading the whole "man is the cause for climate change" was. Also a U.K. Judge ruled that Al Gore's climate film had nine errors, and apparently there are tens of thousands of scientists that are extremely skeptical of man made climate change.

Seems to me this whole thing is just all about money and control using scare tactics.
 
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Zoii

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Ya ... a couple.

First of all, qv the video starting at 02:04.

Her nameplate says her name is Tom Blumenthal!

Second of all, unless I missed it, she doesn't say one word about why she's leaving the History Channel.

Thirdly, has anyone addressed the fact that if you fill a glass of ice cubes up with water ... right to the rim, and let it set until all the ice melts, not a drop of water will run over the edge? In fact, the level of water will drop. That's because water expands as it freezes.

Let the ice caps melt, the ocean level will drop ... not rise.
The sea levels rising is not about the ice currently in the oceans melting, its about the overwhelming majority of ice which is actually on land. If that disappeared then yes sea levels would rise. But its also the fact that global warming accelerates exponentially with polar ice melts as light/heat is reflected by ice and obviously that effect would be eliminated if the ice melted. Thirdly as global warming increases, weather patterns become more extreme again adding to the effects of sea levels surging and effecting low level land masses.
 
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AV1611VET

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The sea levels rising is not about the ice currently in the oceans melting, its about the overwhelming majority of ice which is actually on land. If that disappeared then yes sea levels would rise. But its also the fact that global warming accelerates exponentially with polar ice melts as light/heat is reflected by ice and obviously that effect would be eliminated if the ice melted. Thirdly as global warming increases, weather patterns become more extreme again adding to the effects of sea levels surging and effecting low level land masses.
Okay, thank you! :)
 
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RickG

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1.) Scientists predicted in 2000 that kids would grow up without snow.
2.) It’s been 10 years since scientists predicted the “end of skiing” in Scotland.
3.) The Arctic would be “ice-free” by now.
4.) Environmentalists predicted the end of spring snowfall.
5.) The end of skiing.

Read more: Top 5 failed ‘snow free’ and ‘ice free’ predictions
The Daily Caller is not a science source, its a political source lacking any credibility whatsoever in any science.

I also heard some prominent scientists that used to be on Obama's payroll spoke up about how fraudulent and misleading the whole "man is the cause for climate change" was.
Who, the retired NOAA employee that whose comments were misrepresented by The DailyMail (UK Tabloid) and spread like wild fire throughout the climate change denial community. The scientist himself in a later interview made it clear that there was no data tampering.

Also a U.K. Judge ruled that Al Gore's climate film had nine errors, and apparently there are tens of thousands of scientists that are extremely skeptical of man made climate change.
Al Gore did get some things wrong, Al Gore is a politician, not a climate scientist.

Seems to me this whole thing is just all about money and control using scare tactics.
It sure is, funded by the fossil fuel industry and the political right.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Consensus is the antithesis of science. Real scientists aren't in the business of promoting the status quo,

Consensus is not the same as promoting the status quo.
There is consensus that the world is spherical. This consensus has formed because of the balance of the evidence, not because scientists are afraid to rock the boat. As you point out, scientists are not afraid to rock the boat; therefore, a scientific consensus indicates situations where the balance of the evidence tips strongly in favor of one conclusion.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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I used to wonder what lay behind climate change denial. I came to the conclusion that climate change deniers just didn't want to be inconvenienced by unwelcome facts, and who care about the future anyway - we won't be alive then, even if our grandchildren will.

Even I don't deny climate change, just the political and unscientific claim that man caused it.

All one needs do is look at the ice core data and they will find that global warming started 25,000 years ago and has occurred about every 125,000 years followed by a sharp downward cold spell.

VostokTemp.gif

No, there is no denying that global warming started 25,000 years ago and we are at the top of the spike. But the question is why supporters of man made global warming refuse to accept the scientific data that this happens every 125,000 years and is followed by a downward plunge.... and man will have had nothing to do with either of them. Just as man had nothing to do with the same repeating pattern every 125,000 years.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Very often the denial of quackery is misunderstood as a denial of science.
True. As often real science is labeled as quackery in an effort to not have to deal with it. Galelio was once labeled as a quack too. Kristian Birkelands theory was ridiculed for 40 years and he was labeled as a quack, until they actually sent a probe and discovered he was correct and everyone else was wrong. so in the case of Kristian Birkeland, who were the real quacks? 99% of the scientific community which labeled him as a quack and ended up being wrong, or the one man that ended up being right?

Guess quackery is determined by which side of the fence your legs dangle over.
 
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RickG

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Even I don't deny climate change, just the political and unscientific claim that man caused it.

All one needs do is look at the ice core data and they will find that global warming started 25,000 years ago and has occurred about every 125,000 years followed by a sharp downward cold spell.

VostokTemp.gif

No, there is no denying that global warming started 25,000 years ago and we are at the top of the spike. But the question is why supporters of man made global warming refuse to accept the scientific data that this happens every 125,000 years and is followed by a downward plunge.... and man will have had nothing to do with either of them. Just as man had nothing to do with the same repeating pattern every 125,000 years.
So, according to Milankovitch Cycles, as shown in the Vostok graph by WUWT, how do they explain the current warming, especially when we are currently on the down-turn of the cycle and should be headed back into a glacial period?

I believe the below graph answers that question.

24_co2-graph-021116-768px.jpg


(Source: https://climate.nasa.gov/climate_resources/24/)
 
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Justatruthseeker

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So, according to Milankovitch Cycles, as shown in the Vostok graph by WUWT, how do they explain the current warming, especially when we are currently on the down-turn of the cycle and should be headed back into a glacial period?

I believe the below graph answers that question.

24_co2-graph-021116-768px.jpg


(Source: https://climate.nasa.gov/climate_resources/24/)

That's Co2 levels which have nothing to do with the actual temperatures. I'm not denying we have added to the Co2 levels, but before man Co2 followed temperatures, not temperatures followed Co2.

If you look at the ice core data this temperature cycle is actually less than any of the past cycles. This is because Co2 is an insulator and not a magic one way mirror. That is it has kept the temperatures from rising to levels of the past and has slightly prolonged our current warm state, because it is an insulator, not a magic one way mirror.

There's nothing mysterious about it as long as one treats Co2 as an insulator (both ways) and not a magic one way mirror. So we would expect this period to be slightly cooler than past cycles and to last slightly longer as well.
 
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RickG

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That's Co2 levels which have nothing to do with the actual temperatures. I'm not denying we have added to the Co2 levels, but before man Co2 followed temperatures, not temperatures followed Co2.
The graph you previously posted was showing Milankovitch Cycles. The cycles have three different constituents; Earth's eccentricity, axial tilt, and precession of its orbit. What they affect is the amount of solar radiation received by the sun. Thus, there are cycles that cause the earth to warm and cycles to cause the earth to cool. The initial warming is due to the cycle. As the earth warms, glaciation melts releasing CO2 and CH4. As more ice melts more greenhouse gases are released which help accelerate the warming. Additional warming causes more ice to melt and so on. This process takes thousands of years and even in this natural process, the CO2 level still only tops out at 280 ppmv, which is what we had at the beginning of the industrial revolution. The current Milankovitch Cycle is now in a cooling trend, yet we are warming at a rate much faster than any of those cycles in the warming trend have ever shown in the Vostok ice cores.

If you look at the ice core data this temperature cycle is actually less than any of the past cycles. This is because CO2 is an insulator and not a magic one way mirror. That is it has kept the temperatures from rising to levels of the past and has slightly prolonged our current warm state, because it is an insulator, not a magic one way mirror.
CO2 is not an insulator. CO2 constantly absorbs IR radiation and re-emits it continuously.
 
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AV1611VET

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Replying to Post 198:

Let me get this straight, Belk. All this ice melted on its own?

And just a little more is melting now (by comparison), and it's definitely been ascertained to be our fault!?

My car rolls thirty yards down an incline, and I blame someone for pushing it another two inches?
 
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Belk

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Replying to Post 198:

Let me get this straight, Belk. All this ice melted on its own?

And just a little more is melting now (by comparison), and it's definitely been ascertained to be our fault!?

My car rolls thirty yards down an incline, and I blame someone for pushing it another two inches?

Why are you focusing on the ice? It is a graph about the change in temperature over time.
 
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