Scalia Rebukes Justices on Prayer Case

[fieldsofwind]

and furthermore... as I'm sure most of you know... the words "separation of church and state" do not appear anywhere in our constitution. It is a judge made idea.

 

[praying]

I stand firm for separation of church and state because it is what guarantees us the right to worship as we please.

This is not the country the founders formed any longer the makeup is entirely different. I believe had they envisioned the influx of immigration bringing various cultures and religions that the constitution probably would read quite differently. That is of course only my suspicions.

How the founding fathers felt in their personal writings, i.e. their diary does not really matter. They took great pains to leave God and the Bible out of the constitution. They certainly could have written in the constitution if they desired references to the Almighty acknowledging our creator. Nothing precluded them from having an introduction similar to that of the Declaration of Independence and including the 1st amendment.

Since they did not I believe you can only conclude that they purposely left it out. They did not want the government involved in religious matters. Again though, I also believe had they foreseen the great influx of immigration of cultures and religions that the constitution might read quite a bit differently.

 

[Philosoft]

and furthermore... as I'm sure most of you know... the words "separation of church and state" do not appear anywhere in our constitution. It is a judge made idea.

You don't suppose those words merely characterize a position constructed from concepts that actually do appear in the Constitution, do you?

I'm pretty sure "Miranda" doesn't appear in the Constitution either.

 

[reverend B]

fields of wind,
separation of church and state was a phrase coined by jefferson when discussing the amendment.
as for all the christian oriented quotes, you are right. they are legion. they are also balanced by an enormous body of letters and other writings by the founders about the deist faith, led by notables ben franklin and thomas jefferson. this is why the separation was important then, even to these luminaries. jefferson didn't want hamilton (in particular) to have the right to tell him what to believe.
if we do the research without bias, the issue is much more complex than your post would lead the reader to believe. when you said the process was working for your school for centuries, that may be true for the majority. your school is certainly not an atmosphere that encourages a vocal minority. though you find no offense, others may suffer in silence. Jesus said, "when you do it to the least of mine, you do it to me." pluralism is sort of a reflection of that attitude. the insignificant become significant in our form of government, and when we "do it" to them, we may find that down the line they will do it to us. he did not come to serve the righteous. our government does not seek to protect the comfortable. never ignoring the little guy is what makes this country great, or will.

 

[chalice_thunder]

i still find it baffling why anyone needs someone to lead them in prayer. i can handle it on my own, especially when Jesus said the recommended way was to do it in private. that is what we are truly fighting for in these cases. the right to have someone express our needs to God for us and let us go along for the prayerful ride. people who lead prayer can often instill quite offensive doctrine into the prayer life of others and become a burden to faith. talk to the Father yourself, and listen for answers for yourself. then we can all pray together in the classroom, jews, muslims, christians and all, and the pagans can read. who could stop us? just keep it between you and who you pray to, and skip the dubiously qualified leader.

I very much agree here, reverend B. And all too often prayer "leaders" inject sentiments that border on political agenda - no matter what side of an issue - and it becomes more rhetoric than prayer. (At least that has happened in my experience)

 

[Tempest Storm]

and furthermore... as I'm sure most of you know... the words "separation of church and state" do not appear anywhere in our constitution. It is a judge made idea.

Niether does God, Jesus or Christianity. The phrase "Seperation of Church and State" was first used by Jefferson in a letter to the Danbury Baptists regarding the First Admendment.

What many anti-seperation ppl don't understand, is that it works both ways. Seperation protects those that are not Christian, and Christians. It protects ppl of all religion, and non-religions. Freedom of religion is freedom from religion. You can't have one without the other.

 

[Doctrine1st]

He belongs in a cave.

In a long deep cage, I mean cave.

A Scalia quote:

“Indeed, it seems to me that the more Christian a country is, the less likely it is to regard the death penalty as immoral. Abolition has taken its firmest hold in post-Christian Europe and has least support in the church-going United States. I attribute that to the fact that for the believing Christian, death is no big deal.”

I take it he's refering to the abolition of the death penalty. If the idea of following Christ leads to a better way of life, how has the benefit of his Christian driven penalty of death made life in America, better than post Christian Europe?

 

[burrow_owl]

I dunno about a cave.....he can be truly hilarious at times, and his wild-eyed dissents are about as close to entertaining as a court opinion can get.

What he needs is some kind of time-travelling editor that can see how he'll turn out in a case and then recuse Nino for him.