SC Senate Passes Bill Banning Affirmative Care For Minors

[KCfromNC]

I gave no idea what you are trying to say. Would you not consider someone who thinks they are a bird delusional? Was the person who tossed their child into the water delusional because thought the child was a fish?

I can't help if you consider those useful analogies to the religious beliefs that I mentioned earlier, but I didn't bring them up.

 

[BCP1928]

So transwomen don't believe they are women? I think you'll have to support that.

Because I believe it. And if you don't want to offend me you have to say it too. You know, to be polite. You do t actually have to believe it, just say it

That's not what I asked. You said they already know they are trans. If course they do. Do they believe they are a woman?
What is a trans woman?

If they asked you if you believed they are a woman, what would you say?

Trans Women Are Women. This Isn’t a Debate.

If a transgender woman was assigned male at birth, are they still a male? If so, then why do they want to change their birth certificates to.indicatw they are female. And what is a female?
What is a woman?
What is a transwoman.
You claim they are not women, but would affirm they are women. It's a double minded position.

trans woman (short for transgender woman) is a woman who was assigned male at birth.

Trans woman - Wikipedia

A trans woman is a woman who is trans. They were assigned a masculine sex and gender at birth and have since transitioned to a feminine gender.

What Does It Mean to Be Transgender?

Trans Women Are (or Are Becoming) Female: Disputing the Endogeneity Constraint | Hypatia | Cambridge Core

Trans Women Are (or Are Becoming) Female: Disputing the Endogeneity Constraint - Volume 37 Issue 2

www.cambridge.org

• A transgender woman is a woman (lives as a woman, identifies as a woman) and was assigned male at birth.
• A transgender man is a man (lives as a man, identifies as a man) and was assigned female at birth.

Trans 101

You see the claim is they ARE men or ARE Women despite what they were born as.

You dont believe they are women. But you are.willing to lie to them about it? Confirm to them they are a woman?

.

Are you in some kind of trouble? Do you need help? Do you have someone you trust that you can talk to?

 

[RileyG]

Can we substitute in other groups whose self-identity isn't based on empirical verifiable facts?

Because the last time I tried, that was labeled as showing contempt for the group. But for some reason the post I'm responding to seems to say it is fine.

Wonder when it will flip flop back yet again? Perhaps it depends less on the details of how individuals come to their conclusions about self-identification and more on whether the individual is part of the in group or is one of the minority groups GOP propaganda is attacking to score cheap political points.

There are no attacks or propaganda.

People can “self identify” as whatever they chose.

They does not mean they are truly what they say they are and everyone must accept it.

 

[BCP1928]

There are no attacks or propaganda.

People can “self identify” as whatever they chose.

They does not mean they are truly what they say they are and everyone must accept it.

No, but there is no reason we shouldn't tolerate them kindly just because some of us define "woman" differently than they do. As to attacks and propaganda, CF is full of it, sometimes quite vicious.

 

[RileyG]

No, but there is no reason we shouldn't tolerate them kindly just because some of us define "woman" differently than they do. As to attacks and propaganda, CF is full of it, sometimes quite vicious.

Words have meanings. You cannot change words based on feelings.

You’re correct, we should treat them kindly, but that doesn’t mean others have to tolerate their ideology.

 

[BCP1928]

Words have meanings. You cannot change words based on feelings.

Language is a human construct and words change or their meanings evolve all the time. Expanding the pronoun "she" to include trans women as well as biological women is not much of a stretch.

You’re correct, we should treat them kindly, but that doesn’t mean others have to tolerate their ideology.

Why not? We have to tolerate yours.

 

[RileyG]

Language is a human construct and words change or their meanings evolve all the time. Expanding the pronoun "she" to include trans women as well as biological women is not much of a stretch.


Why not? We have to tolerate yours.

Trans women, from my perspective, aren’t women. They’re men.

Words do not change based on an ideology.

So? They made their choice. Not everyone accepts it. Move on.

 

[BCP1928]

Trans women, from my perspective, aren’t women. They’re men.

Yours is not the only perspective. Get used to it.

Words do not change based on an ideology.

No, people change words through common usage.

So? They made their choice. Not everyone accepts it. Move on.

What choice was that?

 

[RileyG]

Yours is not the only perspective. Get used to it.

No, people change words through common usage.

What choice was that?

#1. I’m aware. Still doesn’t mean I have to accept it.

#2. Yes? I’m still not going to call a male a she or her because he demands it.

#3. Living as a transgender person is a choice.

 

[rjs330]

I can't help if you consider those useful analogies to the religious beliefs that I mentioned earlier, but I didn't bring them up.

I noticed you didn't answer the question. Would those people be delusional or not. I'd be happy to discuss your religious statement but not until we discuss the analogy first.

 

[rjs330]

Are you in some kind of trouble? Do you need help? Do you have someone you trust that you can talk to?

It appears to me that you are the one who's in trouble here. All your arguments and support for the trans community have been debunked and you don't know what to do. So you go on to suggest that others are having some sort of crisis.

It's quite fascinating to watch peoples reactions when their ideology comes crashing down.

 

[rjs330]

You’re correct, we should treat them kindly, but that doesn’t mean others have to tolerate their ideology.

Or support it.

 

[RileyG]

Or support it.

Amen.

Trans people made their choice.

They just have to realize not everyone accepts their lifestyle, and move on.

Simple.

 

[rjs330]

Expanding the pronoun "she" to include trans women as well as biological women is not much of a stretch.

I disagree. It's a confirmation that they are a woman. And when you confirm they are then you have no right to tell them they cannot gave access to women's spaces. It's a double minded argument.

You are woman enough to be called she, but not woman enough to play woman's sports or get naked with women in their locker rooms. You have in effect limited their womanhood. You have lied to them.

 

[rjs330]

Why not? We have to tolerate yours.

I wonder if you really understand the meaning of tolerant or even of intolerance.
I mean you don't understand the meaning of woman.

 

[BCP1928]

I wonder if you really understand the meaning of tolerant or even of intolerance.
I mean you don't understand the meaning of woman.

I understand your meaning. That doesn't mean that I have to apply it in all cases. I can, if I want, expand the meaning to include trans women in certain environments, like the workplace. You have a meaning that you assign to "woman" but you don't own the word, so just because I use the term "woman" to describe a trans woman at work, doesn't mean that I am invoking your meaning.

 

[BCP1928]

It appears to me that you are the one who's in trouble here. All your arguments and support for the trans community have been debunked and you don't know what to do. So you go on to suggest that others are having some sort of crisis.

It's quite fascinating to watch peoples reactions when their ideology comes crashing down.

All you have told me so far is that you know better what I believe than I do, you know better what trans women believe than they do, and then you tried to sell me a perverse notion of what trans women are and what they really want. It seemed like it might be some kind of a crisis to me.Sorry.

I disagree. It's a confirmation that they are a woman.

But not necessarily a woman according to your definition.

And when you confirm they are then you have no right to tell them they cannot gave access to women's spaces. It's a double minded argument.

I have no right to tell them that, anyway. They don't need permission from me.

You are woman enough to be called she, but not woman enough to play woman's sports or get naked with women in their locker rooms. You have in effect limited their womanhood. You have lied to them.

Not if I didn't invoke your definition of "woman." Of course I don't really care if they get naked with women in their locker room, and dealing with trans in sports is way beyond anything I know about athletics. Talk to the experts if you want to know what's going on.

 

[Ana the Ist]

OK

Not sure if that's an agreement or not but I'll drop it since it's not directly related to the OP.

No, it's not a polite lie to me.

Ok.

In the first place, all of the trans women I know (just a few, really) are open about being trans.

What does "open about being trans" mean in this context? Does it mean...

1. They don't try to pass in order to deceive anyone?
2. They accept that they aren't real women but rather men pretending to be women aka trans women?
3. They would claim to be men if asked despite any attempts to pass?

Or some combination of the above?

Or something else entirely?

When I use requested pronouns for them they already know it's not because I think they are real women.

Did you ever ask them why they requested certain pronouns if they don't believe they're women and you don't either?

 

[BCP1928]

.



What does "open about being trans" mean in this context? Does it mean...

1. They don't try to pass in order to deceive anyone?

None that I know. Of course, if they succeeded then I wouldn't know anyway. Most of the whining about pronouns seems to stem from white collar workplaces where standards of gendered dress, grooming and deportment are very different than the kind of places I work. so my experience is likely to be different than yours.as well.

2. They accept that they aren't real women but rather men pretending to be women aka trans women?

They don't think they're pretending, as far as I can tell They think the most important part of themselves can be expressed better as a woman than as a man. But you'd better ask rjs. He knows more about what I believe than I do myself, and more about what trans women believe than they do themselves.

3. They would claim to be men if asked despite any attempts to pass?

I'm not clear on your meaning.

Or some combination of the above?

Or something else entirely?

Undoubtedly. If you actually know these people and work or socialize with them then whatever personal relationship you establish with them will be added to the mix.

Did you ever ask them why they requested certain pronouns if they don't believe they're women and you don't either?

Because they wish to function as women in the workplace and it is convenient for all if the definition of "she" is expanded for that purpose to include trans women as well as biological women.

 

[rturner76]

If I walked into my doctors office and said "Doc I think and feel like I have prostate cancer" he should believe that I feel and think that. Should he treat me for prostate cancer? Should he tell me that I have prostate cancer and affirm that I do? If not why not?

Would doctor that did that be okay in your book? After all it's between the doctor and the patient right?

Are their any limits to what goes on between a doc and his/her patient?

That would be valid if prostate cancer was a thought disorder. Mehtal disorders are diagnosed and treated based on an assessment by the doctor which is based on the patient's answers to usually a standard set of questions. Prostate cancer is proven by scanning a man's prostate and getting a tissue sample. THere are no tissue samples nor scans that can determine what someone thinks or feels. Sorry, apples and oranges.

If your child went to see the doctor and told the doctor that they feel.and believe they are a dog should the doctor believe them that they feel and think that way?

Every teen would have their own treatment plan agreed upon by the doctor, the teen, and the parent(s). I find it unlikely that a viable treatment plan for a teen who believes they are a dog would be more intensive treatment in a specialty. I am not aware of a treatment plan that includes rabi shots or the other physical interventions you mentioned. I could see it being possible that the teen could be treated with some kind of psychotropic medication.

With a trans teen, if talk therapy isn't enough, they will try medication. I'm not a doctor so I don't know what medication they would try first. Perhaps an antidepressant because often, trans people are also treated for depression and/or anxiety. If the doctor, teen, and parents, agree that a transition has become the best form of treatment, perhaps they prescribe a cycle of one of the drugs used to begin a transition. After the first round, the teen would likely be evaluated and they would agree on the next step. So again, I don't think there is any other diagnosis besides gender dysphoria that is treated by a physical intervention and I know it's not something that happens overnight like getting penicillin, painkillers, or allergy medicine etc.

Should the doctor then give them rabies shots and distemper shots and whatever other medicines dogs get?

See above, the two disorders are not related other than them wanting to be something other than they are. I'm pretty sure they draw the line at transspecies medication/surgery though perhaps someone could alter their looks with the help of a plastic surgeon, they may be able to change parts of their anatomy to resemble their animal of choice.

After all it's between the doctor and the patient.

Onve a diagnosis has been determined yes. I don't think I've read about species dysphoria in the DSM-5 criteria for the diagnosis of mentalhealth disorders.

But what they do afterwards I might have something to say about that depending on what they want.

Why, if their doctor doesn't object or their parents. Who are you to determine the treatment of another person's child?

Children however are another matter entirely. Doctors can listen to the kid. But honestly not believe them when they say they think they are trans. Because half the time kids don't have a clue what they really think or what they are really talking about. They may be tossing the word trans out but when they are actually treated with psychological treatment from those who are not Affirmative Care professionals it is discovered they are not trans at all and didn't have any idea what was going on in their minds. A doctor might believe that's what the kid thinks about what's going on, but that's not really the issue at all. So a kid should not be medicalized. They should not receive Affirmative Care because it's far too dangerous for them. As Europe has discovered. A doctor should treat that actual cause and not the cause the kid thinks they might have. And as we have PROVEN to you that's not what is going on.

Do you honestly believe that children don't know what they want half the time? In my experience, they always know exactly what they want. Does it mean we give them anything they want no matter the consequences? That is why we have doctors and parents. I understand you don't like it but if it is not illegal and supervised by a doctor, they can determine the next steps together, and believe it or not, the family does not have to consult you. THat's what doctors are for and that's why there are laws. I guess they felt that between a teen their parent(s) and their doctor, they could determine the best course of action for their family. Your opinion is really a non-factor in that decision (those decisions). Remember that the doctor or pharmacist with every prescription hands out a document outlining the side effects of any prescription.